Home Open Account Help 259 users online

Steam & Excursion > The Proportions Of This Locomotive Are Most Unusual For Its Size!


Date: 09/12/20 02:32
The Proportions Of This Locomotive Are Most Unusual For Its Size!
Author: LoggerHogger

Every once in a while you come across a certain steam locomotive that makes you stop and stare to figure out what seems out of place.  This is one such locomtoive for me.

Never mind that this one was given a "B" rather than a number, I wish we could see her spot plate!  It is her unusual proportions of the cab and the cylinders that seem quite odd to anyone used to seeing Shay Locomotives.

She is standard gauge and is only a 50-ton 2-truck model.  Her cab looks so low as to make us wonder if there were clearance issues in the power plant she worked at.  The short cab makes her cylinders look huge, but the specs for her show they are !1' x 12" cylinders, so, very standard for a 50-ton Shay.  Perhaps he large diameter air tank also adds to the unusual proportion issue I mentioned.

This one has me stumped.

Martin



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/20 03:33 by LoggerHogger.






Date: 09/12/20 04:51
Re: The Proportions Of This Locomotive Are Most Unusual For Its S
Author: PlyWoody

Also notice the height of the crankshaft in the engine is one or two inches higher than the drive shaft in the trucks which requires the universals to flex with any movement.  The last Shay built, the big Cass (WM) number 6 had that same design so it must not have been of any inefficiency problem. Any gauge change in the truck would not require any crankshaft relocation as the flex is handled by the universals. You can not "overwork" a universal (as Earl fears).



Date: 09/12/20 08:06
Re: The Proportions Of This Locomotive Are Most Unusual For Its S
Author: Jeff_Johnston

Based on the visible driver diameter, that doorway looks to be somewhere around 58 to 60 inches tall. I know prople were, in general, somewhat shorter back in those days, but holycow.

It's the "working" that helps keep a U-Joint in good shape because that helps keep the grease moving and distributed for use by the needle bearings. A U-joint that doesn't move much is more apt to fail prematurely, be it in a car, a locomotive or any other application.

Jeff Johnston
trainvideosandparts.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/20 08:07 by Jeff_Johnston.



Date: 09/12/20 08:15
Re: The Proportions Of This Locomotive Are Most Unusual For Its S
Author: HotWater

Jeff_Johnston Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Based on the visible driver diameter, that doorway
> looks to be somewhere around 58 to 60 inches tall.
> I know prople were, in general, somewhat shorter
> back in those days, but holycow.
>
> It's the "working" that helps keep a U-Joint in
> good shape because that helps keep the grease
> moving and distributed for use by the needle
> bearings.

There are "needle bearings" in those?  Please explain further.


A U-joint that doesn't move much is more
> apt to fail prematurely, be it in a car, a
> locomotive or any other application.
>
> Jeff Johnston
> trainvideosandparts.com



Date: 09/12/20 11:08
Re: The Proportions Of This Locomotive Are Most Unusual For Its S
Author: flyingfred

HotWater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jeff_Johnston Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Based on the visible driver diameter, that
> doorway
> > looks to be somewhere around 58 to 60 inches
> tall.
> > I know prople were, in general, somewhat
> shorter
> > back in those days, but holycow.
> >
> > It's the "working" that helps keep a U-Joint in
> > good shape because that helps keep the grease
> > moving and distributed for use by the needle
> > bearings.
>
> There are "needle bearings" in those?  Please
> explain further.
>
>
> A U-joint that doesn't move much is more
> > apt to fail prematurely, be it in a car, a
> > locomotive or any other application.
> >
> > Jeff Johnston
> > trainvideosandparts.com

Jack, I believe that the OP was referring more to cars regarding the needle bearings. I am unclear as to the construction of the U-joints on this locomotive.

-Fred-



Date: 09/12/20 11:10
Re: The Proportions Of This Locomotive Are Most Unusual For Its S
Author: LoggerHogger

The universal joints on this Shay are the same as on most all Shays.

Martin



Date: 09/12/20 12:05
Re: The Proportions Of This Locomotive Are Most Unusual For Its S
Author: HotWater

LoggerHogger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The universal joints on this Shay are the same as
> on most all Shays.
>
> Martin

Thus, no "needle bearings", right?



Date: 09/12/20 12:08
Re: The Proportions Of This Locomotive Are Most Unusual For Its S
Author: ORNHOO

HotWater Wrote:
> >
> > It's the "working" that helps keep a U-Joint in
> > good shape because that helps keep the grease
> > moving and distributed for use by the needle
> > bearings.
>
> There are "needle bearings" in those?  Please
> explain further.

Yes, as seen in the illustration here: https://www.machineservice.com/products/universal-joints/what-is-a-universal-joint/
needle bearings are held by the bearing cap assemblies and ride against the trunnions.



Date: 09/12/20 12:16
Re: The Proportions Of This Locomotive Are Most Unusual For Its S
Author: HotWater

ORNHOO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HotWater Wrote:
> > >
> > > It's the "working" that helps keep a U-Joint
> in
> > > good shape because that helps keep the grease
> > > moving and distributed for use by the needle
> > > bearings.
> >
> > There are "needle bearings" in those?  Please
> > explain further.
>
> Yes, as seen in the illustration here:
> https://www.machineservice.com/products/universal-
> joints/what-is-a-universal-joint/
> needle bearings are held by the bearing cap
> assemblies and ride against the trunnions.

Thanks, however that is an automotive application, and that company has 60 years of experience, i.e. they started in 1960. When was the Shay in question built? Late 1920s?



Date: 09/12/20 12:17
Re: The Proportions Of This Locomotive Are Most Unusual For Its S
Author: LoggerHogger

Jack,

She was built in October, 1920.

Martin



Date: 09/12/20 12:23
Re: The Proportions Of This Locomotive Are Most Unusual For Its S
Author: HotWater

LoggerHogger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jack,
>
> She was built in October, 1920.
>
> Martin

Thanks Martin. So,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,were "needle bearings" actually developed and in use, inside universal joints, as large as those used on a Shay?



Date: 09/12/20 12:24
Re: The Proportions Of This Locomotive Are Most Unusual For Its S
Author: LoggerHogger

Jack - NO - there are no "needle bearings" on a Shay universal.  They use solid brass sleeves on the ends of the horns.

Martin



Date: 09/12/20 12:29
Re: The Proportions Of This Locomotive Are Most Unusual For Its S
Author: HotWater

LoggerHogger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jack - NO - there are no "needle bearings" on a
> Shay universal.  They use solid brass sleeves on
> the ends of the horns.
>
> Martin

Thanks Martin. That's what I thought From my days on the BC&G RR, where the Georgia Pacific 3-truck Shay operated, back in 1962/1963, they sure didn't use "soft grease" on those huge universal joints. After running through the water of the Lilly Fork stream (the logging track went right down into the water and up the other side), we stopped and the Engineer "painted" all the moving parts using a broom and a bucket of thick black stuff. Seemed to work pretty good.



Date: 09/12/20 15:24
Re: The Proportions Of This Locomotive Are Most Unusual For Its S
Author: PHall

That cab roof is really low, as in you need to hire Hobbits to be the engineer and fireman.



Date: 09/12/20 15:53
Re: The Proportions Of This Locomotive Are Most Unusual For Its S
Author: LarryDoyle

The tallest point on the locomotive appears to be the whistle.  Given the 32" wheels and a pair of dividers, it appears the cab door is 56" tall!  I'm 78 1/2" tall barefoot.  They must have had some real clearance problems.

-LD



Date: 09/12/20 15:54
Re: The Proportions Of This Locomotive Are Most Unusual For Its S
Author: ORNHOO

HotWater Wrote:
> Thanks, however that is an automotive application,
> and that company has 60 years of experience, i.e.
> they started in 1960. When was the Shay in
> question built? Late 1920s?

Theis type of universal joint was patented in 1903 by Clarence W. Spicer; https://www.machineservice.com/products/universal-joints/history-behind-the-universal-joint/
and has been manufactured by Spicer and others since at least 1904.



Date: 09/12/20 16:43
Re: The Proportions Of This Locomotive Are Most Unusual For Its S
Author: HotWater

ORNHOO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HotWater Wrote:
> > Thanks, however that is an automotive
> application,
> > and that company has 60 years of experience,
> i.e.
> > they started in 1960. When was the Shay in
> > question built? Late 1920s?
>
> Theis type of universal joint was patented in 1903
> by Clarence W. Spicer;
> https://www.machineservice.com/products/universal-
> joints/history-behind-the-universal-joint/
> and has been manufactured by Spicer and others
> since at least 1904.

All well and good, except that design was NOT what was used on Shay locomotives, at least NOT with "needle bearings"!



Date: 09/13/20 15:51
Re: The Proportions Of This Locomotive Are Most Unusual For Its S
Author: JimBaker

I noticed in the Spec. Sheet that the fuel used was Anthracite.
Could this be the need for a larger higher boiler?

James R.(Jim) Baker
Whittier, CA



[ Share Thread on Facebook ] [ Search ] [ Start a New Thread ] [ Back to Thread List ] [ <Newer ] [ Older> ] 
Page created in 0.0759 seconds