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Date: 01/07/21 21:34
SP Magic!
Author: Fiftyfooter

Looking thru the old 16 MM color films this just came to light!
Any ideas on these two!
trainmovies.com
trainmovies.com



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/21 21:50 by Fiftyfooter.






Date: 01/07/21 23:17
Re: SP Magic!
Author: Evan_Werkema

The first one looks like Castroville, CA:

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,4671636,4671636#4671636

SP 4-6-0 #2375 was used between Watsonville and Monterey on the March 29, 1953 "Day Around Monterey Bay" excursion that also used 4-6-2 #2411 from Oakland to San Jose and 4-10-2 #5011 from San Jose to Watsonville.  The train indicator on the right would read "X2375," but the class lamp is blocking the "X2."



Date: 01/08/21 02:01
Re: SP Magic!
Author: refarkas

Considering these are from 16mm film, these are "A+" restored images.
Bob



Date: 01/08/21 07:36
Re: SP Magic!
Author: Cabhop

The lower one looks like a three train meet at Saugus.  Interesting the Malley looks like it's working but the caboose of the train it's following is just ahead.  Lots of scenarios to speculate about. 



Date: 01/08/21 11:42
Re: SP Magic!
Author: schaffner

Which videos are these shots from?

Jim



Date: 01/08/21 12:27
Re: SP Magic!
Author: patd3985

Cabhop Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The lower one looks like a three train meet at
> Saugus.  Interesting the Malley looks like it's
> working but the caboose of the train it's
> following is just ahead.  Lots of scenarios to
> speculate about. 

Maybe it's just stopped and the blower is working?...Or getting ready to assist in doubleheading?



Date: 01/08/21 13:22
Re: SP Magic!
Author: Elesco

Or is the cab forward backing away from the caboose?

Assuming this really is Saugus, the photo is looking SP west (geographic north).  Did the cab forward just finish pushing the train over Newhall Pass?  That would, however, be uncommon, as WB helpers usually ran through from Los Angeles to Vincent or Lancaster.  An exception would be if the train were a Santa Paula Local.

It was allowed for an AC to push on a steel caboose.  



Date: 01/08/21 15:39
Re: SP Magic!
Author: patd3985

Elesco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Or is the cab forward backing away from the
> caboose?
>
> Assuming this really is Saugus, the photo is
> looking SP west (geographic north).  Did the cab
> forward just finish pushing the train over Newhall
> Pass?  That would, however, be uncommon, as WB
> helpers usually ran through from Los Angeles to
> Vincent or Lancaster.  An exception would be if
> the train were a Santa Paula Local.
>
> It was allowed for an AC to push on a steel
> caboose.  

Now that you mention it, it does appear to be backing away from the caboose. Notice the slight forward angle/slope of the steam and smoke.



Date: 01/08/21 17:41
Re: SP Magic!
Author: wingomann

patd3985 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Now that you mention it, it does appear to be
> backing away from the caboose. Notice the slight
> forward angle/slope of the steam and smoke.

Two things makes me think it's just sitting.  If it was backing wouldn't we see the engineer looking back.  Instead it looks like his arm is on tte armrest.
The Cab Forward may have crept it's train up to a car length from the caboose to clear a switch at the back of the train or to get closer to the station to pick up orders.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/21 17:42 by wingomann.



Date: 01/08/21 21:03
Re: SP Magic!
Author: wabash2800

Maybe two trains met in the same siding for the meet with the passenger train?

Victor A. Baird
http://www.erstwhilepublications.com



Date: 01/08/21 21:35
Re: SP Magic!
Author: johnsweetser

The second photo definitely isn't Saugus.

To start with, the depot appears to be a Standard No. 18 type, which rules out Saugus.

The Saugus water tank was on the main line, not a side track like seen here. Also, the Saugus water tank had a spout on the main line.

My suspicion is that the photo was taken at Livermore but I haven't come across anything yet to verify this.

Posted from iPhone



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/21 21:38 by johnsweetser.



Date: 01/08/21 22:40
Re: SP Magic!
Author: Elesco

Agreed, definitely the Saugus water tank had a spout directly over the main line.  Below is the famous Steinheimer photo of a 2-10-2 waiting for a local freight off the Santa Paula Branch, to help it up to Newhall tunnel.




Date: 01/08/21 23:00
Re: SP Magic!
Author: timz

> It was allowed for an AC to push on a steel caboose.

Did an SP timetable ever allow more than 235000 lb
on drivers behind a caboose, before diesels?



Date: 01/09/21 02:17
Re: SP Magic!
Author: Evan_Werkema

johnsweetser Wrote:

> My suspicion is that the photo was taken at
> Livermore but I haven't come across anything yet
> to verify this.

I can't say for absolute certain that it is, but all the right structures are present in the right places in this 1949 aerial of Livermore, CA:
 




Date: 01/09/21 06:58
Re: SP Magic!
Author: Elesco

timz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > It was allowed for an AC to push on a
> steel caboose.
>
> Did an SP timetable ever allow more than 235000
> lb
> on drivers behind a caboose, before diesels?

I don't remember where I got that idea that AC helpers could be placed behind the caboose and can't find anything to support it, so it was likely incorrect.



Date: 01/09/21 10:09
Re: SP Magic!
Author: Cabhop

In my original comment on this post I made the comment this could generate a lot of speculation.  One I never considered was the 4-8-8-2 was a light engine.  One comment suggested it was it was backing away from shoving the train ahead.  But there is a lot of grade ahead so why would it cut off here?  Anyone seen a shot of a Malley shoving on any SP caboose wood or steel? 



Date: 01/09/21 13:03
Re: SP Magic!
Author: johnsweetser

Cabhop Wrote:

>  Anyone seen a shot of a Malley
shoving on any SP caboose wood or steel? 

The special instructions section of a 1942 San Joaquin Division timetable stated:

"Engines weighing more than 235,000 pounds on the drivers will not be placed behind steel underframe cabooses."

I suspect this restriction applied to all SP divisions.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/21 13:06 by johnsweetser.



Date: 01/09/21 14:02
Re: SP Magic!
Author: johnsweetser

According to a 1946 Western Division timetable, the No. 1 siding at Livermore - used for eastward trains as seen here - extended from the station building and went 4600 feet west, so if the photo was indeed taken at Livermore, the freight with the caboose probably was a local, since it had to be short. Therefore, the cab-ahead was either running light or was leading a following freight (there was also a No. 2 siding at Livermore for westward trains. That siding started 2000 feet east of the station building and went 4000 feet further east).

Posted from iPhone



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/21 14:33 by johnsweetser.



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