Steam & Excursion > Potentially great news in regards to PRR K4 1361

https://www.railroadcity.org/uploads/1/3/3/3/133350866/spirit_of_altoona_press_release.pdf

Let's hope they can raise the money

Optimistic with Wick Moorman involved......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/21 15:03 by markyk.

Meanwile volunteers all over America are rebuilding locomotives in lean-tos! Or if you're in Vegas,
an FRA inspection in your backyard!

Out 

Great news for the K4 1361 project and great news for Altoona,  the state of Pa. and for all steam lovers. 

   This ill fated project so badly mis-managed for 20 plus years is now firmly ( finally ! ) in the hands of a team of proven professionals who have the knowledge and wherewith all to get it done and done correctly. You can take it to the bank that the 1361 will be a reliable runner when returned to service.

   ALWAYS remember not to ask when it will be finished. It will be done when its done.

   This great news is happening because two industry senior leaders, Wick Moorman and Bennett Levin stepped in and took the reins, thus insuring that it will end successfully.

    Al of us steam lovers owe Wick & Bennett our gratitude and support.

    Onward & upward.  Ross Rowland 

AT LONG LAST GOOD NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Great news. Perhaps Wick can persuade NS to donate some money to the project from it's donations fund.

Victor

So does this count as our obligatory 1361 thread for this month?  Or do we need another one before the calendar turns to July?

That press release is pretty light on details...

No, this shall count for the bi-annual 1361 thread. For those wishing much more detail go to YouTube and watch the 30 minute press conference from yesterday. It will tell you all you need to know and then some.  

    Great news for steam!!  Ross Rowland 

All we've got so far, is another chapter in the saga of 1361.

It was in the summer of 1964 when Ross asked Russ Shipman and me
to do an evaluation of 1361, then on display at the 'Curve'...(as possible use for the AFT)--

Above Altoona, we obtained permission and the keys to the gate, and began a modest,
quick, look-see at the vitals of the engine and its condition...

We concluded that it was a likely candidate...but, that it looked like it would take
a lot of boiler-work to be operationally ready and that it would take 2 locos ( + 3750?) 
to make the viable power combination for the AFT.  Would have been a wonderful
pair,  but very costly --- Joe & Doyle woulda' been very busy...
 ( decades later, Doyle did get 1361 returned to operation for a season, or so..)

This was all before the year-2000 re-write of the FRA Steam Loco Insection Rules.
Since then, it's been a sad, drawn-out, story of half-hearted disassembly, rumor
​and scattered parts.
 HOW NOT TO DO AN OPERATIONAL REBUILD..

Now, we're back to the "funds raising stage..."
Don't hold your breath .... (another $2.5 million into the 1361... $5million and ticking..)
You coudal' built 5 complete 100% replicas of the K4s  for that cost...complete with all
roller bearings axles, today's safety requirements and possibly all oil-burners.
( the expense is building the FIRST replica, the "4 copies" are progressively cheaper...
once you've got the casting patterns made, the jigs built and the crew practiced..).

In a way, two K-4s for the AFT woulda' been  spectacular, for the eastern
USA, and the planned 4449 would be the oil burner for the vast expanses of the 
Mighty USofA... Thanks to Doyle and Joe's leadership, the 4449 shines brighter 
than ever, while 1361 & 3750, languish in the elements and in pieces..

The precious specimens were better protected for the couple of decades while stored at
Northumberland roundhouse.  Where I first saw the 'collection', one August night in '64...
where we picked-out the loco shapes with flashlights in the dark caves of the Northumberland
roundhouse --- was a marvelous midnight journey into the sleeping ghosts of the once-mighty
PRR Fleet...  

That was the same summer as Strasburg RR had gotten D-16, 4-4-0 restored to operation....
( I have slides of the engine, before they painted "Strasburg RR" on the cab sides of #1223  )
Its a shame that so many members of that original collection are still sitting outside, to this day,
wasting away.

I'm still optimistic at seeing 1361 returned to operation, someday...but, it's been a long time since she 
romped out of South Amboy on the "Long Branch".... A professional photographer ( out of Newark, NJ)
was commissioned in the summer of 1957, to take a formal portrait of 1361, when it had been selected by
Philadelphia to be THE preserved K4 for the PRR. .. possibly for display at Horse Shoe Curve!

The 8x10 photo is stamped on the back: "A.F. Sozio, photographer."..commissioned by
PRR to take the photo.   The engine was all spit & polish in the picture taken at Bay Head,
with a proud person sitting in the cab..(.maybe a hostler, at Bay Head?)

in 1959, Lou Cooke, advertising artist, had the 8X10 enlarged to 4 ft X 8 ft for
a wall mural on the second floor of the Elbron, NJ commuter station & also the location of
the WP&N ( HO')  railroad & club HQ --- "North Jersey Coast HO MRR Club" --- until vandals
torched and totally destroyed the originsl Elbron station ( 1964?)...
 I have managed to save the 8x10..

When we get settled in our new house north of Dover, De,  ( move-in maybe in August?),
I'll figure out how to post on T.O., that 1957 picture of a hot 1361, for all PRR fans to enjoy...
and reminisce about.

Rant is over..

​Wes Camp



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/21 15:38 by wcamp1472.

Another name on the the Board...Don Graab. Former head of Mechanical at Norfolk Southern.

IMHO there are too many reputable players for this not to happen....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/21 13:03 by markyk.

Let's hope Wick and Graab can influence Squires to let 1361 stretch her legs on the mountain and around the curve!
 

PRR1361 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let's hope Wick and Graab can influence Squires to
> let 1361 stretch her legs on the mountain and
> around the curve!

Would that be prototypical? I thought K4s locomotives were generally double headed on "The Curve".

A big reason for double-heading was related to keeping to the
timetable..... for a quick traverse to get to the top...

From there to Chicago was relatively easy railroad grades...

So, yes, double-heading was tye result.  
Also, playing into the equation ( and the decision about opting for extra locos)
was the comparatively low wages and related costs  that were involved.
After WW2, those costs rose dramatically, the engines that got us through the war 
were pretty-well ragged-out, and ready for tye scrap yard.... and diesels were 
attractive, largely because of the large numbers of 'non-ops' forces that could be 
reduced in wholesale reductions-in-force

Remember, that payroll taxes must be withheld and sent to the treasury every 90-days,
in advance..

That could be a significant cash-drain, over the years.  These costs rose dramaticlly
after WW2, along with competition from more vehicles and public highways..

Bring on the diesels.

​W.

PRR1361 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let's hope Wick and Graab can influence Squires to
> let 1361 stretch her legs on the mountain and
> around the curve!
>  

"Influence Squires"...um??....(eyeroll)...??!!??

I have a better idea. Goodbye, Squires.....

Posted from Android

If TO had a “like” button, I’d have tapped it for this!

CW

ns1000 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PRR1361 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Let's hope Wick and Graab can influence Squires
> to
> > let 1361 stretch her legs on the mountain and
> > around the curve!
> >  
>
> "Influence Squires"...um??....(eyeroll)...??!!??
>
> I have a better idea. Goodbye, Squires.....
>
> Posted from Android

Posted from iPhone

My understanding is that the Pennsy Double-headed them in the Midwest too. Could it be that they just didn't have anything big and fast enough like the New York Central Hudsons, and the exotic designs were just too late for the diesels?

Victor

HotWater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PRR1361 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Let's hope Wick and Graab can influence Squires
> to
> > let 1361 stretch her legs on the mountain and
> > around the curve!
>
> Would that be prototypical? I thought K4s
> locomotives were generally double headed on "The
> Curve".

1361 has been in pieces for over twenty years. While "experts" tried to put humpty dumpty back together again, 3750 has been viewed by the public. I would like to see it restored and put indoors, but I doubt I will it in my lifetime.
I doubt I will see 1361 run again in my lifetime. So much money wasted by people with ego's larger than the engine.
Far better just to have left the engine at the curve. At least it could be viewed as a complete engine by the public.
The saying goes, the road to hell is paved with good intentions, then the road to hell, in this case anyway, is PRR 1361, a eight lane highway.

Posted from Android

...so why this one instead of the other K4 they have or the 4-8-2 they have?

why not put this one back together & cosmetically display /evaluate some of the other candidates?

I liken 1361 to a little girl and a football.

Out 

nsrlink Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...so why this one instead of the other K4 they
> have or the 4-8-2 they have?

Because "they" don't have another K4, or a 4-8-2.

The other K4 and the 4-8-2 in question are in the collection of the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania, not the Railroaders' Memorial Museum



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/21 14:10 by pennsy3750.