Steam & Excursion > Boulder City does away with rail bikes

In recent years the prolifderation of rail bike operations has brought a lot of new patrons to various railroads.  The largest of was operated by Rail Explorers in Boulder City, Nevada where they launched a year round tour business across Nevada State Railroad Museum trackage.  They ran all day and into the night and was quite successful.  The agreement expired recently and the state looked at the operation and decided they wanted a bigger piece of the business.  They put out an RFP and demanded monthly rent of $17,000 and a 10% commission of revenue from operations and souvenir sales.  They wrote the RFP so that only bidders with steel wheel railbikes could bid.  That disqualified most operators but Rail Explorers and perhaps our machines that have metal wheels. We have our hands full in Monterey to even think of bidding on something else.

Today Rail Explorers made the announcement that they could not come to agreement. Unless there is another operator that can meet the metal wheels requirement Boulder City will no longer have rail bikes.   I am guessing that ultimately Rail Explorers would have been paying the state $50,000 a month in rent and commission and Rail Explorers decided that was too much of the pie. 

 

Todd Clark
Canyon Country, CA
Trainorders.com

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seems like  doing business with the states is frought with peril , just ask the ashby's that ran the georgetown loop

dan Wrote:
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> seems like  doing business with the states is
> frought with peril , just ask the ashby's that ran
> the georgetown loop.

Mostly un-elected, career bureaucrats who have never run a business in their life.  They will continue to be paid regardless.

Rail Exploreres was one of three bidders for the new contract.  A new bidder was selected.  I'm not sure if the winning bidder was publically announced yet (Ive heard the name, but don't remember).  

 

Greg Ramsey
Las Vegas, NV

What other kind of material besides steel is used for wheels on motor cars/rail bikes?

JB - Omaha



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/23 15:29 by Copy19.

Geez, the state doesn't make enough income from Vegas?  Typical bureaucratic BS.

Copy19 Wrote:
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> What other kind of material is used on wheels for
> motor cars/rail bikes?
>

Most of the wheels used by other operators are polyurethane plastic wheels.  They don't have a proper rail profile and they have a tendency to fail without notice.  The lack of rail profile is problematic and they have a hard time navigating frogs and have been known to fly off the tracks on curves.  Some operators carry a spare wheel with them in case one breaks during tours.  The only two operators that use steel wheels are Rail Explorers that had the contract previously, and ours.  I believe Rail Explorers use cast steel wheels. Our wheels use 1/4 inch thick steel spun rims and are the same as they made them in the 1800s, with an updated profile. It is a reliable design, but labor intensive to make. Rail Explorers cars come from South Korea where there is a mature rail bike industry with operations that run like amusement parks.  In Korea rail biking is a big deal.

The problem with this business in the USA is most operations run with sketchy designs that are flimsy and lightweight. Rail Explorers railbikes are the best of the crop next to our design and Boulder City will be sorry if they go with another operator. 

 

Todd Clark
Canyon Country, CA
Trainorders.com

Well you said they will have to use steel wheels i thought?

dan Wrote:
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> Well you said they will have to use steel wheels i
> thought?

That is what the RFP said:  https://lands.nv.gov/uploads/documents/RFP_Submittal_Instructions-_BC_Museum.pdf

However, RFPs have been known to be thrown out the door when there are not enough bidders.

 

Todd Clark
Canyon Country, CA
Trainorders.com

how hard to get some mow wheels and change out?  new axles or adaptor bearings?

The ones I am familiar with are plastic wheels with a urethane tread/flange tire.

That's on railbikes anyways.

Copy19 Wrote:
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> What other kind of material besides steel is used
> for wheels on motor cars/rail bikes?
>
> JB - Omaha



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/23 17:09 by BigE.

dan Wrote:
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> how hard to get some mow wheels and change out? 
> new axles or adaptor bearings?

Probably not feasible. Harsco will not sell you rail wheels if they are not designated to be placed on equipment they manufacture.  IE, speeder, maintenance cart etc. They would probably want to know why you are purchasing 100 wheels.  If you got past this and ordered from a Chinese Alababa supplier the axles and hubs etc would need to be replaced. Then the lightweight bicycle assembly would need to be replaced with something more robust such as machinery sprockets and chains.  By the time you are done the railbike would need to be re-engineered for heavier duty. It can be done, but the operators of these machines typically cobble together their machines using aluminum tubes with lightweight bicycle components.

Here are three photos showing examples of machines

1. Typical two person lightweight machine with plastic wheels used by most operators.
2. Our machine using wood centered steel wheels.
3. Rail Explorers robust Korean built machine.

Todd Clark
Canyon Country, CA
Trainorders.com

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fairmont wheels also heavy?, i have seen small lots of used wheels in classifieds from time to time

dan Wrote:
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> fairmont wheels also heavy?, i have seen small
> lots of used wheels in classifieds from time to
> time

With hubs about 60 pounds each.  Maybe in classified, used ones here and there, but not enough for a fleet of 15 cars.

Todd Clark
Canyon Country, CA
Trainorders.com

yours get the points with the sweet tear drop design, hot wheels, I always figured the RR museum there was the operator



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/23 17:37 by dan.

I assume the state funds the cost of the engineer who runs the pick up train as well as other costs and wages of support personnel to support the rail bike operation, not to mention the night ops.  Be careful to look a gift horse in the mouth before you bad mouth the state.

We are fortunate to have state support for two rail museums.  There sure isn't much else in Boulder City to draw tourists off the new interstate that bypasses the town.

I remember when rail activity in Boulder City was usually about a one car and caboose monthly local.  Abandoment was looming.

John Bromley. Class of 1960 BCHS





 

Copy19 Wrote:
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> I assume the state funds the cost of the engineer
> who runs the pick up train as well as other costs
> and wages of support personnel to support the rail
> bike operation, not to mention the night ops.  Be
> careful to look a gift horse in the mouth before
> you bad mouth the state.

The bike operator pays for that at rack rate. No special deals.  

 

Todd Clark
Canyon Country, CA
Trainorders.com

Before REX introduced the Electric pedal assist bikes, the train would follow each bike excursion to the end of track, the bike riders would board the train and the bikes would be towed behind the train back to Boulder City.  REX paid for a train engineer and conductor, but the museum supplied the train, fuel, track and equipment maintenance.  REX paid a fee to the state, some of which made it to the museum.  We could debate all day whether the state made or lost money on the operation.  Most of the equipment maintenance and track inspection/repair is/was done by volunteers.  With the train running as much as 7 days a week, the equipment was being beat to death, and I had to perform twice weekly track inspections.  (I'm a volunteer)  Once the electric bikes were introduced, train usage went way down and I could reduce inspections to once weekly to support the weekend train operations.

The REX bikes are great, and I've ridden them several times.  My wife was one of REX's conductors when they were using the train so often got free rides, and I even had to use the bikes as my track inspection vehicle from time to time.  Again whether the state was making money is an accounting function I'm not in a position to discuss.

REX did not fail to come to agreement with the state, they were simply a losing bidder.  As to what equipment the winner will bring I haven't seen.  I've heard no discussion of any "accommodations" that had to be made for the winning bidder.  My only involvement is what windows I get for track inspections and maintenance.

Greg

Copy19 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I assume the state funds the cost of the engineer
> who runs the pick up train as well as other costs
> and wages of support personnel to support the rail
> bike operation, not to mention the night ops.  Be
> careful to look a gift horse in the mouth before
> you bad mouth the state.
>
> We are fortunate to have state support for two
> rail museums.  There sure isn't much else in
> Boulder City to draw tourists off the new
> interstate that bypasses the town.
>
> I remember when rail activity in Boulder City was
> usually about a one car and caboose monthly local.
>  Abandoment was looming.
>
> John Bromley. Class of 1960 BCHS
>
>
>
>
>
>  

Greg Ramsey
Las Vegas, NV



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/23 19:15 by atsfm177.

informative thread.....what is MHRR using with their e-assisted rail bikes?   Arlen

FWIW, I just received a new Nolan catalog in today's mail that offered a variety of steel and aluminum wheels that I suspect could be adapted to railbikes.

Greg

dan Wrote:
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> how hard to get some mow wheels and change out? 
> new axles or adaptor bearings?

Greg Ramsey
Las Vegas, NV