Nostalgia & History > Vista-dome varieties and history

Here are 2 dome cars that I found parked in Kansas City back in the 1980's. One looks like it might be one of the original home-made Burlington domes, with flat glass panels. I noted the floor under the dome was not depressed, either. It had coach seating. The other looks like a Pullman dome, from C&O/B&O lineage. Anyone able to give more information, history?

Thanks, Bandob

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Hi bandob,

To the best of my knowledge, you are spot on regarding the histories and origins of the cars. I am pretty sure the Burlington car is THE first/original prototype, that was the basis for the subsequent orders from Budd. The C & O car was part of the trainset hauled by the "yellow jacket" streamlined steam engines; I can't recall the name of the train.

I'm sure that others can provide more specific details.

Bob

ATSF100WEST......Out

Was to be hauled x steam turbines, and the connecting train by streamlined 4-6-4's (rblt from
F19 4-6-2's). Can't recall destinations. Was an all coach Budd equipped domed train. Never entered
service. The Turbines lasated a couple of years & the 4-6-4's ran into about 1953. One is preserved at the B&O museum I believe. And yes those domes were flat sided glass. D&RGW, B&O,
got some domes & more. C&EI got some coaches, and some ended up in South America. I think MP
and possibly IC ended with some as well. I'm sure I'm not totally correct. Most of the trainsets
were sold . The F19's received new integral cast frames roller bearings throughout, different flu layout, and rotary cam or poppet valve gear. Really wasn't much left of the original engine.
Ron

Here is a link on the C&O "Chessie" domes:

http://www.trainweb.org/web_lurker/CO/

And a link on the Silver Castle CB&Q "pattern" dome (page down):

http://www.trainweb.org/railnewspb/Q/


Bob

Curious where the orignals are now, any info?
Illinois Transit seems to find a lot of these, haven't checked out the inventory lately though.

CB&Q dome #4709 pictured was actually the SECOND 'pattern dome' home-built by Burlington. The first one, #4714, was built/converted in 1945. This one was built in 1949, well after Budd was building and shipping 'real' domes for the California Zephyr and other CB&Q trains. #4714 was a prototype, built before any other domes, but I'm curious as to why Burlington built another homemade one after they became commercially available from Budd as well as other builders.

One is the Silver Castle and the other is Moonlight Dome. The Castle is owned by a group of people who also own Silver Garden. These same people also owned Moonlight Dome at the time these photos were taken.

Go to http://trainweb.org/web_lurker/WebLurkersDOMEmain/ to catch up on these cars current status.

davew833 Wrote:
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> CB&Q dome #4709 pictured was actually the SECOND
> 'pattern dome' home-built by Budd. The first one,
> #4714, was built/converted in 1945. This one was
> built in 1949, well after Budd was building and
> shipping 'real' domes for the California Zephyr
> and other CB&Q trains. #4714 was a prototype,
> built before any other domes, but I'm curious as
> to why Burlington built another homemade one after
> they became commercially available from Budd as
> well as other builders.

This is an excellent question. I looked through several of my dome books and could not find an answer. Weblurker's dome site says: "Additional cars were another "home built" coach in 1949 (to "balance out" the Twin Zephyr consists where the first home-built "pattern" dome was then assigned)". Some personal theories:

1. With the engineering work already done and perhaps tooling, patterns and left-over materials on hand, the Aurora shops was able to do the Silver Castle conversion quickly and for much less money than a new car from Budd.

2. CB&Q wanted a dome car for "pool" service or use as a spare. The recently built Budd domes were built for dedicated service on certain trains and none could be spared for general service or held in reserve. It would make sense that a lower acquisition cost, lower capacity car be used in reserve status.

3. CB&Q was between orders at Budd in 1949 when they decided they wanted an extra "pool" dome (I don't believe the Q took delivery of any new domes between 1948 and 1952). At the time, the Budd Company's backlog of orders was pretty high. Therefore, when a pre-war flat top coach came due for a re-build, the decision was made to convert it to a dome.

Any other ideas?

Bob

Thanks for the theories, Bob. I'd forgotten about the gap from 1948-52 where Burlington took no deliveries. I have no theories of my own, but photos I've seen of the homebuilts running on trains which included Budd factory-builts sure made the former look crude by comparison!