Nostalgia & History > AT&SF Alco DL109 #50A, DL110 #50B

Santa Fe's only DL109 and their only DL110 booster. Only 4 boosters were built, the Southern got the other 3 with CNOTP getting 2 and Southern proper getting one.

only info: from the Alan Miller collection, circa 12/58(?)

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Wow, thanks for posting. I had no idea they had them.

Anyone know the time frame they were on the roster and what became of them?

This happens to be my favorite ATSF Engine. So awkward but sleek!

Nasty things! Even the warbonnet is ugly. Nice portrait, though--thanks for sharing it (even though I now have to go flush my eyes). Kurt.

Now that's exotic. Note the weird application of the words "Santa Fe" on the nose.
-- Eric B.

valmont Wrote:

> Santa Fe's only DL109 and their only DL110
> booster. Only 4 boosters were built, the Southern
> got the other 3 with CNOTP getting 2 and Southern
> proper getting one.
>
> only info: from the Alan Miller collection, circa
> 12/58(?)

This looks like the R.R. Wallin photo that appears at the top of page 41 of The Santa Fe Diesel v.1. They give the date as 1950, but I don't think that's right as other photos show the 50L with a single headlight as late as 1954:

http://www.qstation.org/ATSF50/Scan104.jpg
http://www.qstation.org/ATSF50/Scan105.jpg

At the bottom of the same page in SFDv.1 is a W.A. Gibson Sr. photo of the set in the same spot with the same steam locomotive behind it, and the date there is a more believable 3/3/59. This photo shows the other side of the set, already rusting to the rails in 1957:

http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi?november05/11-26-05/AT+SF50atArgentineKS5-18-57AlChione+ScanColl.jpg

Common-Sense wrote:

> Anyone know the time frame they were on the roster and what became of them?

They were built in May 1941 and sold for scrap in October 1960. They spent most of their lives on the eastern end of the system, though a photo or two does exist showing the 50L in southern California on occasions other than its less-than-impressive first and only run on the Super Chief. This Jack Whitmeyer view on photobob's site shows it at San Berdoo in '52:

http://www.snowcrest.net/photobob/sfl25.jpg

If you believe Steinbrenner's American Locomotive Company - a Centennial Remembrance, the specification number for cab unit 50L was actually DL-107, and booster 50A was a DL-108.

JMW has an ad showing 50L as-delivered, without the second headlight and with the short-lived "filled in" noseband:

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,1466623

Builder's photo:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_sf50.jpg

Somewhere, there must exist a photo of 50L in service with that second headlight in place, but if so, I have yet to see it in print. Every photo I've ever seen of the unit with two headlights shows it stored, or at least parked, at Argentine. Not that the second headlight improved its already questionable styling (sorry Otto)...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/12 12:04 by Evan_Werkema.

Evan_Werkema Wrote:
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> .... If you believe Steinbrenner's
> American Locomotive Company - a Centennial
> Remembrance, the specification number for cab unit
> 50L was actually DL-107, and booster 50A was a
> DL-108.

There is some information in an archived discussion of the Southern Railway's version on how DL-107's became DL-109's and DL-108's became DL-110's:

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,1573496,1573614#msg-1573614

Would have been interesting to spend some time in the engine compartment to hear those twin 539T's screaming away at high speed! Alco definitely improved their passenger locomotive image with the advent of the PA's!

TomPlatten Wrote:

> Would have been interesting to spend some time in
> the engine compartment to hear those twin 539T's
> screaming away at high speed!

According to Brasher's Santa Fe Locomotive Development, those twin 539's shook the units so badly that Santa Fe refused to accept them until Alco reinforced the carbody. Even then, the locomotives' vibration at idle could be felt back in the train.

Evan_Werkema Wrote:

> This looks like the R.R. Wallin photo that appears at the top of page 41 of The Santa Fe Diesel v.1. They give the date as 1950, but I don't think that's right.............................
> At the bottom of the same page in SFDv.1 is a W.A. Gibson Sr. photo of the set in the same spot with the same steam locomotive behind it, and the date there is a more believable 12/59..............

Evan is on the right track as usual. Bill Gibson did indeed take a shot of the 50A in 1959. But the notes on his slide indicate a March 1st date, although the slide I have is a Kodak duplicate. (This is something he did with several slides throughout his collection.) Bill was very meticulous with his slide dating & ID'ing. I don't believe the shot valmont posted is the one Bill took. Bill tended to take his roster shots a little flatter in what I call a "5/8" angle as opposed to the classic 3/4. My read is that Bill was on an outing with the photographer who actually took the shot from the Alan Miller collection. When I saw valmont's post it was an eerie deja vu. I had just gone over Bill's shot this morning looking for future thread material!

I hope this info helps out some.

Lance

1. AT&SF 50A sitting with the 50B on March 1, 1959 in Argentine, KS.
(photo by William A. Gibson Sr.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/23/18 15:28 by santafe199.

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I sent Alan an email to see if he can help with who shot the one I posted, but not sure when I will hear back as I know he's traveling from Chile today and won't have access to his files

I did notice that there were no clouds and the shadows were different in the other shot posted (which is far superior in quality to the one I have), so unless they were photo shopped out doesn't seem like the two were taken at the same time (?)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/12 11:12 by valmont.

info just in from Alan, he hadn't left yet

His is a dupe also and mine is a copy of that one ... his is labeled "Copy of A37-3 and he added "Info in same writing is KC-KS 12/19/58. No photographer listed and I have no idea where I got the dupe from." He also wondered if the steam engine in the background was the same.

Sure looks that way to me as does the Black Widow in the background right .... the 50 and the steam engine are stored at this time aren't they?

Well, the A37-3 makes this a W. A. Gibson Sr. I was shootings b&w. wag216

santafe199 Wrote:

> Evan is on the right track as usual. Bill Gibson
> did indeed take a shot of the 50A in 1959. But the
> notes on his slide indicate a March 1st date,
> although the slide I have is a Kodak duplicate.

Well, I need to learn to read. There are three 50L-in-storage photos on p.41 of SFDv.1, the "1950" R.R. Wallin photo that matches the one valmont posted, a 12/19/58 profile shot credited to WAG Sr., and the shot at the bottom that matches the one you posted, with a 3/3/59 date. No guarantee they (or I) got that last date exactly right, either.

valmont wrote:

> Sure looks that way to me as does the Black Widow in the background right

The WHAT???? >-(

I'm pretty sure the zebra-striped FM in the background is different between the two photos. In the photo you posted, we're looking at the cab end of H16-44 3008, but in WAG Sr.'s photo, it appears to be the radiator end of a late H12-44 (no handrail stanchions along the frame edge except one near the corner).

> the 50 and the steam engine are stored at this time aren't they?

I don't know when 50L ran its last revenue mile, but every photo I've seen of it after 1957 shows it rooted to that spot. Santa Fe steam died in 1957, so it's safe to assume the engine behind 50L&A is awaiting its fate as well.

One other nitpick...these units were 50L and 50A, not 50A and 50B. In the photo valmont posted, you can see the small letter "L" below the second headlight.

That 'Santa Fe' spelled out on the side of the nose is just... awkward. It's not even straight. I don't know how it could be improved, though.

wag216 Wrote:

> Well, the A37-3 makes this a W. A. Gibson Sr. [slide]......

As soon as I posted Bill's shot from 3-1-59 I started wondering about the lack of clouds in the shot. I would not photo-edit out clouds in the sky, just the usual dust & little hair specks. I then wondered if Bill took his shot separate from the other photographer. They could have missed each other by minutes, or even a couple of hours. But when Val mentioned the slide label: "A37-3" I knew it was a Bill Gibson shot (as Art has already pointed out). I went scurrying into some of Bill's slide boxes I have yet to even get a look at, much less scan & file. I found Bill's original slide "A 37-04" which is a side cab profile shot, presumably taken right after the original shot from Val's post. The clouds certainly match. The idea that Bill shot the 50 L&A pair more than once is entirely reasonable. He was a frequent visitor to Argentine. It also lends support to the idea that the 50 duo was sitting in a storage line (with the steamer behind). This shot also has a zebra-striped unit in the right hand background. The slide "A 37-03" is still AWOL, probably in a separate group gathered for some past slide show. A Gibson slide show was an incredible event if you were a young "Kansas Gangster" railfan in the 70's & early 80's!

This should clear some of the mystery...

Lance

1. AT&SF 50A sitting in 1/2 profile on December 19, 1958 in Argentine, KS.
(photo by William A. Gibson Sr.)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/18 07:11 by santafe199.

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santafe199 Wrote:

> 1. AT&SF 50A sitting in 1/2 profile on December 19, 1958 in Argentine, KS.
> (photo by William A. Gibson Sr.)

Yep, that's the "middle" shot on p.41 of SFDv.1.

Evan_Werkema Wrote:

> One other nitpick...these units were 50L and 50A,
> not 50A and 50B..........................

I did not catch that one, Evan. Even Bill has his slides labeled "50 & 50A" instead of A & B. It went right over MY head as I was hurrying to
get these 2 slides scanned & cleaned. Thanks for the nit-picking! :^) I will duly correct the files...

Lance

Boy, I could sure use a COLD one right about now... ;^P

Lance

santafe199 Wrote:
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> Boy, I could sure use a COLD one right about
> now... ;^P
>
> Lance


you're not alone, but one thing's for sure, it's always a good ride when TO's detectives are sleuthing ... answers always seem to show up


Ok, now back to my mystery files for more 'I have no clue about this picture' subjects to post