Nostalgia & History > When Trains Still RAN This Way.

In a day when trains ran eastward (compass south) on the ol' C&S. 7820 and I passin' through Walsenburg, CO. on the way to Trinidad.

qman

---

That's a great picture.

The signal's middle light showing green is unusual. Is there a story behind that?

RuleG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The signal's middle light showing green is
> unusual. Is there a story behind that?

I hope someone more knowledgeable than me will chime in, but my recollection from riding dome cars across the former CB&Q from Chicago to Denver is that this was standard on that railroad - green in the middle, yellow on top, and red on the bottom. It seems I recall reading or someone saying that the theory was that this would reduce risk of the red lens getting covered during blowing/freezing snow common in that part of the country in winter (snow could accumulate on top of the sun visor cover of the lens below it).

Outstanding photo qman!!!
This is the first time I've ever
seen a green aspect in the middle.
What year was this taken?
cf7

czephyr17 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RuleG Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The signal's middle light showing green is
> > unusual. Is there a story behind that?
>
> I hope someone more knowledgeable than me will
> chime in, but my recollection from riding dome
> cars across the former CB&Q from Chicago to Denver
> is that this was standard on that railroad - green
> in the middle, yellow on top, and red on the
> bottom. It seems I recall reading or someone
> saying that the theory was that this would reduce
> risk of the red lens getting covered during
> blowing/freezing snow common in that part of the
> country in winter (snow could accumulate on top of
> the sun visor cover of the lens below it).

Makes sense, very cool. Back then, the RR's seemed to be alot more independent when it came to "setting up" their signals, unlike today. Today, the BORG COLLECTIVE has taken over.

czephyr17 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RuleG Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The signal's middle light showing green is
> > unusual. Is there a story behind that?
>
> I hope someone more knowledgeable than me will
> chime in, but my recollection from riding dome
> cars across the former CB&Q from Chicago to Denver
> is that this was standard on that railroad - green
> in the middle, yellow on top, and red on the
> bottom. It seems I recall reading or someone
> saying that the theory was that this would reduce
> risk of the red lens getting covered during
> blowing/freezing snow common in that part of the
> country in winter (snow could accumulate on top of
> the sun visor cover of the lens below it).

This was the standard on CB&Q and subsidiaries.

I don't think there was any logic to the placement of the aspects. If a signal was obscured by snow, then the rules required it to be interpreted as red (least favorable aspect) anyway.

I remember travelling through Kansas and Colorado on Amtrak No 3. through a blizzard. It was the type of snow that stuck to everything, including vertical surfaces. Semaphores, of course, presented no problem but every signal of any other type was unreadable due to snow. The crew did the right thing by keeping speed down so they could stop short of any obscured signal. In each case after stopping, the fireman would get down and climb the ladder to wipe the snow off the lens of the signal. The train would then proceed on a green.

Bob

Beautiful shot, crossings ever block, earplugs a must.
JB

Note the Coors van on the right.

I don't know why but, that shot just grabbs me.

czephyr17 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RuleG Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The signal's middle light showing green is
> > unusual. Is there a story behind that?
>
> I hope someone more knowledgeable than me will
> chime in, but my recollection from riding dome
> cars across the former CB&Q from Chicago to Denver
> is that this was standard on that railroad - green
> in the middle, yellow on top, and red on the
> bottom. It seems I recall reading or someone
> saying that the theory was that this would reduce
> risk of the red lens getting covered during
> blowing/freezing snow common in that part of the
> country in winter (snow could accumulate on top of
> the sun visor cover of the lens below it).

My understanding of the reason for the placing of the green signal in the middle on Burlington Lines was that the two colors most likely to be confused were red and yellow. By placing the yellow on top and red on the bottom, the position of the light compared with the shape of the signal face would cause further differentiation between those two colors. Safer. IMO, better.
I wish they were still this way. But they were changed after the BN merger.

The red being on the bottom may reduce the risk of snow problems, but it is on the bottom with either placement: Y-G-R on Burlington Lines, G-Y-R after BN.

Very cool shot. So do any trains still run through Walsenburg these days?

Not in any particular order, here are a few comments related to the questions and the general situation. Late March, 1979 is the date, yes, trains still operate through Walsenburg but only in a northward direction, opposite the direction I'm goin' in this pic. Xings. not blocked to any great degree with emergencies being the exception, of course. In the 80's the ABS between Trinidad and W'burg was upgraded and signal displays were reconfigured to conform to the "norm" of G-Y-R, top to bottom. The signal in the pic is the beginning of ABS BUT, the signal on the Fireman's side, the back of which is visible, is NOT part of the ABS System. In the pic, I'm passing over a POWER SW. that routes traffic to either the D&RGW or the C&S track for northward trains or allows a train running south on D&RGW rails to move to C&S track and continue on to Trinidad. D&RGW trains destined the San Luis Valley and Alamosa had to line a hand throw sw. to proceed toward Alamosa.

The signal to the left of the track in this shot ONLY displays information concerning the position and status of the POWER SW for northward moves, as mentioned earlier, and is in NO WAY a "BLOCK" signal. The end of ABS is at a point just south of that signal. Confused ?? Don't blame ya !!

Also,the brick depot in W'burg was, in effect, a Union Station as both C&S and D&RGW used it in the days of passenger trains.

qman

Been a while but I don't think there was even an "advance" or "D" signal on the Rio Grande side, just
a searchlight at the C&S Jct.

Correct !! Yard limit, Russel St., Main St. and a pot signal to convey info about the switch and THERE IT IS - the "BEGIN ABS" signal.

This applied to southward trains on BOTH C&S as well as D&RGW track entering W'burg.

qman



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/12 09:34 by qman.

tomstp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't know why but, that shot just grabbs me.

Me, too. Why? Because it looks very, very real in an old film sort of way. It's not perfect, like a digital photo. It has a softness that comes with memories.

Best reply to a post I've ever had, coach. It's the part about the memories that "grabs" me !!

qman

Daze Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> czephyr17 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > RuleG Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > The signal's middle light showing green is
> > > unusual. Is there a story behind that?
> >
> > I hope someone more knowledgeable than me will
> > chime in, but my recollection from riding dome
> > cars across the former CB&Q from Chicago to
> Denver
> > is that this was standard on that railroad -
> green
> > in the middle, yellow on top, and red on the
> > bottom. It seems I recall reading or someone
> > saying that the theory was that this would
> reduce
> > risk of the red lens getting covered during
> > blowing/freezing snow common in that part of
> the
> > country in winter (snow could accumulate on top
> of
> > the sun visor cover of the lens below it).
>
> My understanding of the reason for the placing of
> the green signal in the middle on Burlington Lines
> was that the two colors most likely to be confused
> were red and yellow. By placing the yellow on top
> and red on the bottom, the position of the light
> compared with the shape of the signal face would
> cause further differentiation between those two
> colors. Safer. IMO, better.
> I wish they were still this way. But they were
> changed after the BN merger.
>
> The red being on the bottom may reduce the risk of
> snow problems, but it is on the bottom with either
> placement: Y-G-R on Burlington Lines, G-Y-R after
> BN.


In the early days of color light signaling, there was a university study done to develop standard lens colors that maximized differentiation between aspects. One of the main goals was to develop reds and greens that weren't too yellowish. I think these standard colors are quite effective. For a person of normal vision, there's no mistaking the red and yellow (I can easily distinguish them from two miles away). Further, many engineers report that red signals appear brighter, closer and more piercing than other aspects, ignoring any selective effects on perception given the operational imperatives of a red signal.

The ability to discriminate aspects was most critical with single aspect and searchlight signals. Other types such as semaphores, CPLs and the color light shown in the photo had positional or orientational ques to support proper interpretation of the displayed aspect. For example, an engineer always expecting to see a red aspect on the bottom unit of a color light signal would never interpret it as yellow, even if the sun was playing tricks or he was colorblind.

I maintain that the CB&Q Y-G-R was purely arbitrary on the part of the railroad.

Bob