Nostalgia & History > U-30CG

Lance posted earlier today a U-30CG hiding behind other power at Emporia, that brought back memories. I was blessed to run most of those bell-ringers during my career as an ATSF engineer, including one on my maiden voyage as a promoted hogger. Had 8004 in the lead with a U-28CG trailing on 495 out of Denver at oh-dark-thirty. The alarm bells never quit all the way to Palmer Lake, then would the dynamics work? Na!!! Had to use the air all the way to Pueblo. Sure great to photograph those rolling barns though.

Enjoy the memories..........
Bruce Barrett

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I've heard that the U30CG's rode worse than usual for a U-boat. Was that your experience?

The wost were the B39-8s in my opinion. All of the older uboats were rough riding it seemed, including these CGs.

Posted from iPhone

Nice! And just look and you'll see the precursor to the Amtrak P30CH--just as well "loved" in their time--LOL!!! And coast-to-coast at that! :-P

Got to run my share of those awful gray LMX B39-8s which didn't even have the extra shock absorbers & "steering stablizers" that the later B40-8s had! ROUGH!!!

throttle8 Wrote:

> The worst were the B39-8s in my opinion.

I absolutely agree with Bruce's assessment. I didn't just hate the B39s, I thoroughly dispised them. If ya got a few hours, I can give you all my reasons...

Posted from Android

santafe199 Wrote:

> I didn't just hate the B39s, I thoroughly dispised
> them. If ya got a few hours, I can give you all my
> reasons...

Sure, I've got time. ;^) Fire away (maybe in a new thread).

throttle8 Wrote:
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> Lance posted earlier today a U-30CG hiding behind
> other power at Emporia, that brought back
> memories. I was blessed to run most of those
> bell-ringers during my career as an ATSF engineer,
> including one on my maiden voyage as a promoted
> hogger. Had 8004 in the lead with a U-28CG
> trailing on 495 out of Denver at oh-dark-thirty.
> The alarm bells never quit all the way to Palmer
> Lake, then would the dynamics work? Na!!! Had to
> use the air all the way to Pueblo. Sure great to
> photograph those rolling barns though.
>
> Enjoy the memories..........
> Bruce Barrett

Nice photo Bruce.

Was Steve Patterson ahead of you on the seniority roster?


Allen

The "love seat" for the Fireman & Brakeman was thoughtful, but the 16 notch throttle in your lap was a little awkward.

Posted from Android

throttle8 Wrote:
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> The wost were the B39-8s in my opinion. All of the
> older uboats were rough riding it seemed,
> including these CGs.
>
> Posted from iPhone

I second the motion from Evan!!! Throttle8 and SantaFe199, how about giving us the reasons for all that was horrid about the B39-8s??? And I'm sure you didn't like--any more than I did--B23-7s/B30-7s/B30-8s?!? LOL!!! Hmmmh. Maybe this does call for a 2nd thread? Or maybe there's room on here for hatred of ALL early GE power including the 6-axle units?

Even General Electric ITSELF called all of its prior locos (up to and INCLUDING the Dash 7s) as quote: "JUNK" in the WALL STREET JOURNAL after it had surpassed EMD as the Number One domestic builder with the Dash Eight line, and trying to say in a nice way "Our Dash Eights and entire product line is BETTER now, and we realize that from the U25B on up until the last Dash 7 series we built, it was all JUNK, but we've got a whole new game going now." Yep, they said this in the WSJ in a Page One story! (Now I'll add in that the Dash 8s were semi-OK as Trailing units--and the North American Cabs with cab air conditioners were very WELCOME), but GE didn't really start proving itself until the C44-9W and particularly the C44ACs. And man, the Dynamic Brakes on those C44ACs (I'm using UPRR terminology...OK...AC4400CWs), wow. Compared to other dynamic brakes, when I first used them in a solid set on a loaded coal train, I thought: "This is almost like using the Big Air, these DBs are so powerful." And there were/are a lot of features on the ES44AC GEVOs that I like better than certain features on the EMD SD70ACes which I've listed on here before, but, they are roughly equal units--and relatively minor details. ALL of the modern power is a lot better. But I still maintain that the EMD SD40-2 and the SD70M were the best of them all (the SD70M basically being a more modernized SD40-2 with all of the durability and simplicity of the Dash Two, far more creature comforts, but far more Tractive Effort and a thousand more horespower at your dispoasal). And with 3 70Ms REALLY equaling 4 SD40-2s. The first time you really got "Unit Reduction" without a performance penalty for losing that 4th unit in the "real world."

Steve was behind me on the seniority roster.

Red Wrote:
> I second the motion from Evan!!! Throttle8 and
> SantaFe199, how about giving us the reasons

Other than a decent, color-coordinated paint scheme I did not like anything about the LMX B39-8s I experienced during my time with MRL. The #1 complaint was the unbelievably gut-jarring ride. In my opinion there was way too much horsepower for only 4 axles, combined with a very rigid truck. Under full throttle at lower speeds a B39-8 could literally shake you out of your seat. And of course prevailing habit was to run a given consist at or near the maximum tonnage rating. If you had a B39 on the point you were in for this gut-jarring ride for very long, sustained periods.

I did not like the governor causing the engine to rev up anytime you even cracked the throttle. I broke in as an engineer (1989-90) under guys who taught trainees to use their ears. I had one senior engineer tell me my 2 best "on-the-job" teachers would be my ears & the seat of my pants. He was right. You could tell a lot about how your train was doing by the sound of your engine & by vibrations through your seat in the cab. All you had to do was pay attention. But this became impossible in a B39.

I did not like the governor delaying anything throttle change (upward) when the train was en route. When I throttled up I was telling the engine I wanted more amperage RIGHT NOW, not 1/2 or 3/4 of a mile down the track when the governor finally let the amperage rise. It was nearly impossible to 'throttle-modulate' through undulating terrain (as we were heavily encouraged to do) when the B39's governor routinely delayed a throttle-up amperage increase. Controlling train slack by simple throttle modulation was out of the question with the B39s.

I did not like the automatic blow-down design for the main reservoir. If you happened to be standing on the ground say, talking to your partner up in the cab behind the throttle, the sudden shrillness of the blow-down would be enough to rip your eardrums out.

I did not like some of the crew-comfort cab designs. Primarily the side-wall heaters. They had 2 settings: Off & full nuclear-blast. I also did not like the thimble-sized toilet compartment.

I could nit-pick on numerous other, more minor details but just I'll add this: I always felt that the person(s) involved in the overall design of the B39-8 should have been sentenced to ride in their handiwork every other 12 hours for about 3 months. There would undoubtedly have been numerous design changes & corrections. I'd have to look through my timebooks for an exact date. But the LAST day I ever rode in a B39 was a very happy day in my train service career...

Lance



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/14 06:07 by santafe199.

These are a wonderful look back into history Bruce. Thanks for taking the time to share them with us. It's great to have you back on TO! I'll never forget my second and, as things worked out, last ride on a U30CG. We caught it out of Big Lift on 464. The yellow paint had chipped off the rearview mirrors in a few places allowing the red to show through. I recall thinking how I wished I could see another red Warbonnet... They were fun locomotives to ride, at least to the railfan in me, as I realized the uniqueness of them and even then knowing they had short life expectancies. Carl Anderson was our engineer, and after a little tutorial in just how unique these locomotives were, he gained a little, just a little appreciation for what they were. But he hated them as locomotives! That trip we had a tag-along rider on the second unit, a brakeman out of Needles who was hitching a free ride back to AZ. He had ridden to DEN to see family. The yardmaster in Pueblo had us lined down the main where we stopped in front of the yard office. The inbound crew went through the power and kicked this poor guy off their train. I always wondered how he finished his trip. Anyway they were fun to see from the inside. Sadly this was one of those trips I did not have a camera with me so it's all memories.


JT

My own experiences with the Dash 7s (ALL), and the Dash 8s with the notorious FB-2 truck? Pretty much mirror the above. But "excessive lateral motion" may fool some.

It was a sideways "herky jerk" no matter how many shocks or steering stabilizers were put on them (and the LMX units...which I only got on the UPRR AFTER they'd been lease-returned from the BNSF and in even WORSE condition)...well...it was best described as a very, VERY rapid back/forth, back/forth sideways motion that even the seats with armrests didn't prepare one for!!! Herkity-Jerk!!! And lots of up-down motion to go into the mix to boot. But the most irritating thing about 'em was that very RAPID "herkity-jerk" sideways later motion so that you couldn't even keep a drink of cold water on the ledge of the control stand!!! As reported above, the EXTREME Slow-Loading. EXTREME. In common with B23-7s, B30-7s, and B40-8s, and let's throw in the 6-axle variants of all of the above into the lot.

With the old GEs pre-Dash Eight, the ONLY nice thing about them was the roomy bathroom BEHIND YOU, where you just entered into the area behind the engine compartment--but on the Dash Eights--down into the nose and try to stand up w/o losing your footing!!! And yes, hogheads often turn over a train to a hoghead-qualified conductor or whatever to take a whizz for brief periods to do so. (Not sure what they'll do with the damn In-Cab Cams, and don't CARE--whatever they HAVE to DO to "get the J-O-B done and attend to their NEEDS, I say?!?...I guess a lot of trains will be stopping on the mainline for whizz brakes?!? Glad that I no longer have to worry about this aspect of it any longer, but feel for those of you that DO). But anyway, have "sampled" several AMTK units both EMD & GE, but never got to try out the AMTK GE P32-8BWH with the FB-2 Truck--have often wondered what one of these would be like at 90 MPH on the Southwest Chief or a San Diegan/Pacific Surfliner?!?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/14 17:54 by Red.