Nostalgia & History > discuss what a railroad waybill does

if anyone on this site has every filled
out a railroad waybill. Can you please
replay so I can have some question answered.............


Thanks

JLSeale

I have, it's been several years, and I am sure more will answer with better info. Basically it gives the routing for the car(s), any special handling info, ie, Do Not Hump, if car must be unloaded from a specific side, etc. Hazmat info, Shipper, Consignee, and Customer info. Where to send the MTY car when the load is complete.

Great topic. I will be very interested in your questions and the answers as well. Always been interested in "backoffice" procedures, particularly in the era before computers (though much of the information for waybills would be the same in any era).

The other main thing a Radio Waybill does, is provide hazmat info required in lieu of a regular shipping paper. I never had to copy many, but occasionally the defect detector axle count would indicate an extra car or two, which required taking a walk to figure out what was extra, and if it was hazmat, and if so, copy a radio waybill to document the car, position in train document, and shipping paper info until it gets to the next location where the paperwork is updated.

Here's a thread on the topic.

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,3843988,3843988#msg-3843988

Marty Bernard

https://www.stb.gov/stb/industry/econ_waybill.html
details on STB waybill procedures and definitions
May help with your quest

Enter shipper, origin, consigned, destination.
Next the routing by railroad and junction if the customer specified.
Commodity, weight if actually weighed ( at one time common practice, these days probably a weight agreement)
Rate per hundred pounds, tons, or carload, whatever the contract or tariff requires. Basis of rate, tariff item or contract identification.
Total freight charges.
Years ago these would be folded lengthwise and given to the conductor and would follow the car on each train.
These days all automated although the crew has a consist listing car number, commodity, and next destination. Along with the all important hazmat procedures for hazardous material carloads.
That's what I remember. Things may have changed.

> out a railroad waybill. Can you please
> replay so I can have some question
> answered.............


Here's an example from the Rock Island in Iowa, a waybill for a car of corn moving from Menlo to Houston, TX. It shows the typical format of a waybill from the 1970s.

Take care,

Mark



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/17 10:53 by mamfahr.

---

(In pre-computer days)Before a waybill could be created, the shipper
must fill out a Bill of lading with the pertinent info. The B/L
would be taken to the local station where the Agent would date stamp,
sign and keep a copy. This was the contract between the shipper and
the railroad. From the B/L the agent would Create the waybill which when
completed would move with the freight car from origin to destination.
zr190

zr190 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> (In pre-computer days)Before a waybill could be
> created, the shipper
> must fill out a Bill of lading with the pertinent
> info. The B/L
> would be taken to the local station where the
> Agent would date stamp,
> sign and keep a copy. This was the contract
> between the shipper and
> the railroad. From the B/L the agent would Create
> the waybill which when
> completed would move with the freight car from
> origin to destination.

...because that piece of paper was literally the revenue for the car. The waybill was presented to the customer for payment upon delivery of the car. For example, in a 110 car train of similar shipments, the conductor was responsible for $158, 812.25 worth of paper as well as the shipments. Now, it's all electronic and the train crew never sees or handles the money or the paper that represents the money.

TAW

On unit type trains, we used a mani bill that showed the first car on the first w/b and other cars on a separate waybill

Mike Root
Madras, OR

Filled out one or two in my time...

The waybill is simply everything. It is the reason and authority for moving freight cars. It's the ticket for freight, if you like.

Happy to answer more specific questions if you like.

One question I have relates to how customers specified routing of cars when there were several options to get it to destination. Did the customer always specify the interchange points and railroads, or did they sometimes leave it to the agent to specify a route, which would presumably be the route most advantageous to the originating carrier? And if the customer specified a route, would this be done on the Bill of Lading?

czephyr17 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One question I have relates to how customers
> specified routing of cars when there were several
> options to get it to destination. Did the
> customer always specify the interchange points and
> railroads, or did they sometimes leave it to the
> agent to specify a route, which would presumably
> be the route most advantageous to the originating
> carrier? And if the customer specified a route,
> would this be done on the Bill of Lading?

Yes, if you look at the handy Rock Island waybill above, you'll see a little note that says A for Agent routing or S for Shipper. This would come from the BOL. Resourceful shippers would have preferred routes/gateways because of service or price reasons, but it takes a close reading of the tariffs and lots of experience and time/effort to figure it all out. Some shippers, such as lumber, would purposefully route cars to roundabout routes to give them time to sell and rebill the product.

Post deregulation this has become important with Rule 11 traffic (confidential rates - where the different carriers in a route may or may not know each others' rates) where the shipper specifies 'break points' in the route. These are junctions where the revenue route breaks to show which portions of the route will go on which freight bill. For example, a BNSF PORTL UP CHGO NS from Bellingham, WA to Atlanta, GA may cost $10,000. If it is a prepaid through route, then BNSF issues the freight bill for the full amount and then gives UP and NS each their division. If it is collect, then NS issues the freight bill and gives BNSF and UP their division. However, if it is Rule 11 with a breakpoint of Chicago, then BNSF issues a freight bill for the Bellingham to Chicago portion (giving UP a division) and NS issues a freight bill for Chicago to Atlanta. These freight bills may be against different freight bill parties. That's also specified on the BOL. OR, if it is a Portland breakpoint, then BNSF issues a Bellingham to Portland freight bill, and UP (if prepaid) or NS (if collect) issues. freight bill for Portland to Atlanta. OR, maybe both Portland and Chicago are breakpoints, in which case each railroad issues their own freight bills in a "pure" Rule 11, as opposed to the parent/child Rule 11 examples previous.

Routings for shipments can be found within the rate or in the back of the tariff. Contracts specify the routing

Thanks, waybiller, that helps a lot in my understanding of how routes were determined and revenues split up. I was aware of shippers of lumber using oddball routings to give them more time to sell their products. An Oakes, ND interchange was a popular example in the 1960s and 70s for this purpose for lumber out of Washington and Oregon going east.

czephyr17 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks, waybiller, that helps a lot in my
> understanding of how routes were determined and
> revenues split up. I was aware of shippers of
> lumber using oddball routings to give them more
> time to sell their products. An Oakes, ND
> interchange was a popular example in the 1960s and
> 70s for this purpose for lumber out of Washington
> and Oregon going east.

Diversions were possible until the car arrived at the consignee. That was another trick that was used to wait for the right price. If the diversion occurred to a car already in a train, the route was changed at the point the car was to be removed from the train.

There was also the processing in transit variable. Long ago I had (and may still have somewhere) a freight bill for a car of furniture delivered to Montgomery Ward in Chicago. The bill was for a shipment of logs that went to an intermediate stop to be made into lumber then to an intermediate stop to be turned into furniture and finally to Montgy Ward for sale. It contained quite an array of car numbers, routes, descriptions, and rates.


...and to think that was all done without computers!

TAW

And there was the ploy of scrap dealers, who would
ship a car load of scrap "Destination Weight to Apply and
freight charges Prepaid.
That allowed them to hang on to their money for several weeks!
In this example, the car would move to destination where it
would be weighed. The weights would be sent back to the origin
Agent who could then complete the waybill and produce a Freight Bill
to collect the Freight charges.
zr190

TAW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> There was also the processing in transit variable.
> Long ago I had (and may still have somewhere) a
> freight bill for a car of furniture delivered to
> Montgomery Ward in Chicago. The bill was for a
> shipment of logs that went to an intermediate stop
> to be made into lumber then to an intermediate
> stop to be turned into furniture and finally to
> Montgy Ward for sale. It contained quite an array
> of car numbers, routes, descriptions, and rates.
>

I had heard of processing in transit for grain moving to mills then to a final customer, but not a move with two intermediate stops. If you ever find the freight bill, I would love to see it posted!

>
> ...and to think that was all done without
> computers!

That is what I find fascinating is how all these back-office processes were handled before central computers started handling everything.

>
> TAW

czephyr17 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TAW Wrote:
> >
> > ...and to think that was all done without
> > computers!
>
> That is what I find fascinating is how all these
> back-office processes were handled before central
> computers started handling everything.
>
There were floors with row upon row of desks with clerks.
And each railroad had them.
zr190