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Nostalgia & History > New York Central Hudsons. How far south?


Date: 10/10/19 06:34
New York Central Hudsons. How far south?
Author: steam290

I was wondering how far south did New York Central hudsons roam when they were in service?  Mors specifically, did they ever make it into West Virginia? 
I'm building a freelance model railroad called the Bluefield and Allegheny Central Railroad.  It has an interchange point with N&W at Bluefield West Virginia.  That is the only real town that connects my model to reality.  I love the NYC hudsons and own 3 HO gauge replicas. I've been trying to figure out what kind of operating scenario would bring them onto my railroad.  Any kind of connection with the NYC could do this, as the Hudsons could be running with trackage rights or as jointly opperated or special trains.   Freelancing, I can do whatever I want and send any locomotives anywhere, but the more feasible the idea the better. 

Attached is a photo of a Hudson in William's Ridge WV.   She looks good there, as she would anywhere. 




Date: 10/10/19 10:24
Re: New York Central Hudsons. How far south?
Author: retcsxcfm

A model club in Orlando models the area you mentioned.
They some time run NYC diesels.I have never seen NYC steam.

Uncle Joe



Date: 10/10/19 12:02
Re: New York Central Hudsons. How far south?
Author: zars

Whether any Hudsons made it into West Virginia; I cannot answer, but it would be quite possible they did.  The NYC entered West Virginia via a line from Columbus, Ohio to Gauley Bridge, WV, on the east bank of the Kanawha River.  It reached Hobson, Ohio; then used trackage rights on the C&O (former Hocking Valley) to Kanauga, north east of Gallipolis, where it rejoined its own line that crossed the Ohio River between Kanauga and Point Pleasant, WV.  They also were joint owners with the Chesapeake and Ohio of the Nicholas, Fayette and Greenbrier railway, whose shops were in Rainelle, WV and serving coal mines in the area.

I recall seeing a photo of the Rainelle Shops in the C&O Historical Society magazine that showed NYC locomotives next to C&O locomotives at this shop.  I also recall seeing photos of a short-lived RDC passenger service across the Ohio River offered by NYC in the aftermath of the Silver Bridge collapse in 1967.

This line continued to operate through the Conrail era and went to Norfolk Southern in the split.  It is now operated by a short line, the Kanawha River Railroad.



Date: 10/10/19 14:07
Re: New York Central Hudsons. How far south?
Author: steam290

This is extremely interesting to me, thank you.  Exactly the kind of info I was looking for.  I am modeling this reagion because I love the scenery and I wanted to build a coal hauling railroad with a connection to the N&W, but my favorite all time locomotive is an NYC Hudson.  Plausability is important to some degree in my totally freelanced model.  On the otherhand, if hudsons never found their way down that far on the system, I'll just explain the locomotive's presence by saying The Bluefield purchased a couple of hudsons when the NYC was dieselising. Maybe, in this alternate universe, one or two hudsons actually get saved.

zars Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Whether any Hudsons made it into West Virginia; I
> cannot answer, but it would be quite possible they
> did.  The NYC entered West Virginia via a line
> from Columbus, Ohio to Gauley Bridge, WV, on the
> east bank of the Kanawha River.  It reached
> Hobson, Ohio; then used trackage rights on the C&O
> (former Hocking Valley) to Kanauga, north east of
> Gallipolis, where it rejoined its own line that
> crossed the Ohio River between Kanauga and Point
> Pleasant, WV.  They also were joint owners with
> the Chesapeake and Ohio of the Nicholas, Fayette
> and Greenbrier railway, whose shops were in
> Rainelle, WV and serving coal mines in the area.
>
> I recall seeing a photo of the Rainelle Shops in
> the C&O Historical Society magazine that showed
> NYC locomotives next to C&O locomotives at this
> shop.  I also recall seeing photos of a
> short-lived RDC passenger service across the Ohio
> River offered by NYC in the aftermath of the
> Silver Bridge collapse in 1967.
>
> This line continued to operate through the Conrail
> era and went to Norfolk Southern in the split. 
> It is now operated by a short line, the Kanawha
> River Railroad.



Date: 10/10/19 14:35
Re: New York Central Hudsons. How far south?
Author: warren1977

I'm going to say not likely, because:
Hudsons were heavy passenger locos, there were no name trains south of Columbus, OH. While there was substantial passenger traffic to Charleston,WV. and less provided to Gauley Bridge, WV, it was more of a local connecting service, especially after the Great Depression started.
The NYC Hudsons began to be delivered in 1927, which bumped NYC's fleet of K-2 and K-3 Pacifics to secondary lines, such as the WV line. This coincided with the loss of traffic due to depression, better roads, etc.
The last photo in Lloyd Lewis' "The Virginian Era" shows VGN and NYC trains with Pacifics at the Charleston,WV. station. The joint connection between VGN/NYC at Charleston only lasted about 20 years (ended  in 1952 to Charleston by VGN)
The NYCSHS has a facebook page, why not ask them?  nycshs.org



Date: 10/10/19 15:19
Re: New York Central Hudsons. How far south?
Author: steam290

Excellent information! This is kind of what I had suspected.  I just got done reading a book on the NYC, but it didn't exactly cover everything.

warren1977 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm going to say not likely, because:
> Hudsons were heavy passenger locos, there were no
> name trains south of Columbus, OH. While there was
> substantial passenger traffic to Charleston,WV.
> and less provided to Gauley Bridge, WV, it was
> more of a local connecting service, especially
> after the Great Depression started.
> The NYC Hudsons began to be delivered in 1927,
> which bumped NYC's fleet of K-2 and K-3 Pacifics
> to secondary lines, such as the WV line. This
> coincided with the loss of traffic due to
> depression, better roads, etc.
> The last photo in Lloyd Lewis' "The Virginian Era"
> shows VGN and NYC trains with Pacifics at the
> Charleston,WV. station. The joint connection
> between VGN/NYC at Charleston only lasted about 20
> years (ended  in 1952 to Charleston by VGN)
> The NYCSHS has a facebook page, why not ask
> them?  nycshs.org



Date: 10/10/19 15:36
Re: New York Central Hudsons. How far south?
Author: wabash2800

I agree that it's not likely, but Hudsons did run on the secondary "Old Road" through Michigan on passenger trains in the early 1950s. Before I sold my slide collection purchased from a coworker's father,  South Bend photographer and Railfan Leo Witucki, I had several images with Hudsons at Coldwater, Michigan. Bob's Photos purhased the collection and sells prints.
The Big Four did run Hudsons on passenger trains.

Victor A. Baird
http://www.erstwhilepublications.com



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/19 18:39 by wabash2800.



Date: 10/11/19 04:16
Re: New York Central Hudsons. How far south?
Author: warren1977

The O.P. might find this book of interest.




Date: 10/11/19 12:40
Re: New York Central Hudsons. How far south?
Author: ts1457

I don't know what era you are representing with your model railroad, but if it is circa late forties / early fifties, you could say that your railroad was short power and leased the NYC engines for a short term until  their flue time expired.

Since N&W had a heavy PRR investment in it, I doubt any NYC affiliated line would find a friendly connection with N&W in West Virginia. What is your rationale about interchange?



Date: 10/11/19 16:47
Re: New York Central Hudsons. How far south?
Author: steam290

Yeah, well the PRR investment does create a problem there.  My actual backing story with the interchange is that the Bluefield railroad is more of a bridge road running north to south.  Bluefield is located on the Southern most devisio, (although not the terminus).  about 50% of southbound coal is bound for Bluefield to be taken east by the N&W.  The railroad runs north to Fairmont, where trains run via trackage rights over the NYC to make it into Pittsburgh.  This division is not modeled, but is rather on paper as part of the system map.  western branch was to run to Point Pleasant, where another connection with the NYC would be made.   Another part of my backing story is that N&W gains a controlling interest in the railroad in 1950, so after 1950, N&W steam starts making an apeaerance.  I cap my time period at 1950, so there will be virtually no diesel power on my railroad.   So, maybe the N&W story messes up my NYC connection... I have seen at least one video of an N&W train running with an NYC sleeper.  I have also seen a quick clip of 2 NYC hudsons (at the end of their service life) pulling N&W coal hoppers.  I'm not sure how this ever happened, but I did in fact see a clip.

n
ts1457 Wrote:
-----------------------------------------------------
> your model railroad, but if it is circa late
> forties / early fifties, you could say that your
> railroad was short power and leased the NYC
> engines for a short term until  their flue time
> expired.
>
> Since N&W had a heavy PRR investment in it, I
> doubt any NYC affiliated line would find a
> friendly connection with N&W in West Virginia.
> What is your rationale about interchange?



Date: 10/11/19 19:48
Re: New York Central Hudsons. How far south?
Author: ts1457

steam290 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> ....   So, maybe the N&W
> story messes up my NYC connection... I have seen
> at least one video of an N&W train running with an
> NYC sleeper.  I have also seen a quick clip of 2
> NYC hudsons (at the end of their service life)
> pulling N&W coal hoppers.  I'm not sure how this
> ever happened, but I did in fact see a clip. 

Pullman could have substituted the NYC sleeper if a regularly assigned one was not available.

I don't know if you are talking about a few or a lot of N&W hoppers, but they could have been interchanged at Cincinnati or Columbus. Shippers could choose their routes. If a coal yard or foundry at a location on the NYC wanted coal from a mine on the N&W, It could be done.
 



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