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Nostalgia & History > Toto Tuesday: Super C detoured!


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Date: 01/14/20 03:54
Toto Tuesday: Super C detoured!
Author: santafe199

A little over 2 weeks ago I posted a shot by my late friend Tony Fey. It was Santa Fe’s famous Super C rolling eastbound into Emporia, KS for a crew change. I had thoughts about using Tony’s remarkable shot for that week’s Toto Tuesday, but just couldn’t wait. So I posted a 1 time only (so far)Super C Sunday”: ( https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,4928824,4928824#msg-4928824 ).

Tony would have been my guest photographer for that Toto, and it wouldn’t have been the first time. I’ve had a few other friends as guest Toto photographers in the past. But for the most part I’ve avoided the urge to have Bill Gibson (WAG Sr) as my guest. Then last week Art Gibson (WAG Jr & TO member ‘wag216’) sent me back home to Manhattan with another hefty ‘pocket’ of Bill Gibson slides that weren’t with the main collection. I duly scanned them and found a real gem. I know I know, calling a Gibson photo a real gem is like a listening to a broken record. This one was beyond the usual ‘special’ status, though. Like Tony, Bill shot the eastbound Super C with an all-EMD cowled consist. So I had this great urge to get it posted asap!

But this time the train is detouring over the traditional passenger main in western Kansas. I know for a fact that the Super C was routinely issued special train orders that allowed it to run at passenger train speeds up to 79 MPH on its regular route via Amarillo. I’ve heard many stories about running even faster than 79. I have to wonder about this detour trip over Raton and on east over the Santa Fe’s famed western Kansas raceway. I’m thinking the train would almost certainly have been running behind its schedule into Chicago. So I’m curious as to what kind of special train orders “Extra 5943 East” might have been issued for this detour trip?? But I have a pretty good idea

1. AT&SF train 891, the eastbound “Super C” flies through Sylvia, KS on September 19, 1972. This train is detouring over the Albuquerque ~ La Junta ~ Newton passenger main line.
Photo by William A. Gibson (WAG) Sr.

Thanks for looking back!
Lance Garrels (santafe199)
Art Gibson (wag216) with “wag 2811” sittin’ in



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/20 13:16 by santafe199.




Date: 01/14/20 04:13
Re: Toto Tuesday: Super C detoured!
Author: UP951West

Thanks for sharing this most interesting slide of the Super C with all cowl units !  --Kelly



Date: 01/14/20 04:24
Re: Toto Tuesday: Super C detoured!
Author: valmont

Wow ... what a wake-up call!!! Thanks for this terrific memory!



Date: 01/14/20 04:56
Re: Toto Tuesday: Super C detoured!
Author: robj

Great image and story, love the rural truck lineup in the background.


Bob



Date: 01/14/20 05:39
Re: Toto Tuesday: Super C detoured!
Author: ATSF3768

WOW! Another piece of Wichita's FP-45 #93's history recorded for perpetuity. Thanks WAG and 199 for sharing!



Date: 01/14/20 05:41
Re: Toto Tuesday: Super C detoured!
Author: texchief1

Excellent shot!

Randy Lundgren



Date: 01/14/20 06:26
Re: Toto Tuesday: Super C detoured!
Author: SPDRGWfan

Is that a caboose I see at the back?  Mini super C?



Date: 01/14/20 06:42
Re: Toto Tuesday: Super C detoured!
Author: atsfer

Liked those cowl units, qualified on one in 1979.  My own super C story and my first exposure to it came around 1974, in Wichita.   I was still switching then, and for some reason the C was detoured through Wichita, and had a hot piggyback load for Wichita.  My pompous foreman said we should all have on our good shirts and ties to do this job.   The C showed up east bound, and we were waiting at the top end of the yard at Wichita.   He stops makes a cut holding on to the Wichita car, pulls over the switch, we put the plant in hand throw, go out and grab the load of his train, return to the yard and he then can flag back to his train couple up and leave town.   The load was so hot, that we took it down to the small TOFC ramp in south Wichita and spotted it that night.



Date: 01/14/20 07:17
Re: Toto Tuesday: Super C detoured!
Author: ntharalson

Thanks for posting this, Lance, really enjoyed seeing it.  The reason for the detour would have been interesting but I know you probably don't have any info on that.  And two FP's and a regular F45
as a consist was a great catch.  

Nick Tharalson,
Marion, IA



Date: 01/14/20 07:30
Re: Toto Tuesday: Super C detoured!
Author: tomstp

Just 4 cars almost outnumbered by engines.  Bet he had no problems running hot and fast.



Date: 01/14/20 08:00
Re: Toto Tuesday: Super C detoured!
Author: monaddave

santafe199 Wrote:
>> curious as to what kind of special train orders “Extra 5943 East” might have been issued for this detour trip??<<

In ATS Territory (90 MPH) an individual order would read "OBSERVE PSGR TRAIN SPEED AND RESTRICTIONS BUT DO NOT EXCEED 79 MPH". Note, all caps because ATSF train orders were typed that way.

In non-ATS the order would have read just "OBSERVE PSGR TRAIN SPEED AND RESTRICTIONS". 

I have a few somewhere in the abyss known as my hobby room. Packed away for a move. Love that shot! I'm betting Bill was out that way on company business, being that date was a Tuesday.
Dave in Msla



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/20 08:02 by monaddave.



Date: 01/14/20 08:42
Re: Toto Tuesday: Super C detoured!
Author: 3rdswitch

What a great catch. Never heard of or seen a photo of the Super off it's normal territory. I think the seventy nine mph allowance was actually in each TT Special Instruction section? MAY have had a "right over" TO? Would have loved to have caught that train!
JB



Date: 01/14/20 11:19
Re: Toto Tuesday: Super C detoured!
Author: Railfan4Christ

That's a "Super" shot!

Tom



Date: 01/14/20 18:42
Re: Toto Tuesday: Super C detoured!
Author: wag216

Got old note notebook out.  
   Super C is #891 running as extra 5943 because of a derailment.
   Power was 5943
                      5938
                       5944

Dad was on business to shut down the depot at Stafford, Kansas.
Dont have any more data.
WAG216



 



Date: 01/14/20 20:10
Re: Toto Tuesday: Super C detoured!
Author: ATSFSuperChief

Super C on the Race Track between LaJunta and Dodge. Bet the crew was used to 90 MPH Passenger Trains and had itchy hands on the throttle.

Don Allender



Date: 01/14/20 20:22
Re: Toto Tuesday: Super C detoured!
Author: SD45

A couple of good photos posted today.  Thanks for sharing.
sd-45
 



Date: 01/14/20 20:49
Re: Toto Tuesday: Super C detoured!
Author: hotrail

tomstp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just 4 cars almost outnumbered by engines.  Bet
> he had no problems running hot and fast.

I was always fascinated by this train, my Dad would take me out trackside back in the late 60's and 70's and we were always excited to catch the Super C.

With all that power and so few axles, it must have accelerated like the proverbial bat outta you-know-where, but the braking must have been terrible.  Probably a lot like running a light engine move. It would be interesting to hear from a hogger what it was like to run a train with 10,000+ horsepower and only about 20 axles for train braking.  



Date: 01/14/20 21:51
Re: Toto Tuesday: Super C detoured!
Author: santafe199

hotrail Wrote: > ... but the braking must have been terrible ...

While I was in MRL's Locomotive Engineer Training Program at Missoula (89 ~ 90) I was getting time in on the helpers over out of Helena. We had a 4-unit consist, 6-axles each coming back down the pass engine lite. Just drifitng along at the legal 25 MPH on the 2.2% downgrade. I was in light dynamics, standard practice for the situation. Suddenly the engineer told me to slam the throttle into run-8. The dynamics took a second or 2, then went into full dyno. I could SWEAR we stood that consist right on the nose of the lead unit. In other words, the swift reduction in speed was startling! The engineer told me that method, finished off with independent driver brakes was was quickest way to get slowed down & stopped in an emergency situation, without the risk of putting flat spots on the engine wheels.

I would bet full dynamic braking out of 3 F/FP45s would slow 4 pigs & a waycar down pretty quickly, without even touching the air...

Lance/199 



Date: 01/14/20 22:02
Re: Toto Tuesday: Super C detoured!
Author: santafe199

ATSFSuperChief Wrote: > ... Race Track between LaJunta and Dodge ...

Dave Franz ('monaddave') & I made our Amtrak student baggageman trips on trains #3 & #4 between KC & La Junta in January of 1979 (21st?). #3 was running about 8 hours late because of the never-ending upper midwest BLIZZARD that winter. And for some reason #3 had 4 units w/ the usual 9 cars. We got out west of Garden City and the engineer really opened it up! Dave & I got down to a dutch door to time the mileposts. Keep in mind Dave's wrist watch wasn't exactly atomic clock timing, but we were clicking off miles @ 33 ~ 35 seconds. If EVER a worn our phrase applies here, it would be: "THOSE were the days!!!"  :^)

Lance



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/20 22:04 by santafe199.



Date: 01/15/20 03:21
Re: Toto Tuesday: Super C detoured!
Author: Roadjob

They truly were impressive units, and the Super C was an amazing run while it lasted. Great commentary, and a truly historic image.

Bill Rettberg
Bel Air, MD
commercial photography



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