Nostalgia & History > Pacific Electric, a couple of oldies

1.   PCC 5000 at Toluca Yard,  located at the mouth of the Subway Terminal tunnel,  Los Angeles   1945.  I have a b&w print of this same car with a different Navy recruiting message;  perhaps each side had a different message.  Photographer unknown

2.   Motor 1607 switching in Los Angeles ca early 1950s.   8th St Yard,  along Alameda St.  Thanks to cewherry for the info (see his post below)  Bob Carlson photo



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/20 18:19 by masterphots.

---

---

Historic traction beauties.
Bob

From the angle of the yard it almost looks like 8th Street

Out 

callum_out Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From the angle of the yard it almost looks like
> 8th Street
>
> Out 

I thought the same thing but not enough big warehouses,  although maybe this angle doesn't show them.  Nice scene of bygone railroading at any rate.

Very much so, in the mid-sixties the steeple cabs were stored in that yard, made quite a scene. I would think that the
gentleman is standing on the shoulder of Alameda St.

Out 

I had to really give this one some serious thought....until I applied to Mr. Goolgle. I'm somewhat taken aback that I didn't  
recognized it immediately since this scene played such a seminal part in my career. You can read here the account of my first
hour on the railroad.https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?18,2738229,2738229#msg-2738229

Here's about where the photographer was standing in the early 1950's; as of about May 2019.
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0314035,-118.2389342,3a,75y,235.06h,78.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjsfRJnGDHYA6xm0-14zFOA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

In my defense I can only plead that we don't see many photos Pacific Electric's 8th St Yard taken from the north end, looking south.
Yes Rich, that's the sidewalk along Alameda St. and Mtr. 1607 has hold of a cut of cars on, probably, the same track where I witnessed
"Old '97" comin' through, headed for Glory Land. In this photo it appears the crew is shoving into the clear and will pick-up the crummy
waiting on the lead before capping their train and heading for either Butte St. or maybe even as far as Graham yard.

Sweet picture!

Charlie



 

When was the yard taken out?

Steve

cewherry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I had to really give this one some serious
> thought....until I applied to Mr. Goolgle. I'm
> somewhat taken aback that I didn't  
> recognized it immediately since this scene played
> such a seminal part in my career. You can read
> here the account of my first
> hour on the
> railroad.https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/re
> ad.php?18,2738229,2738229#msg-2738229
>
> Here's about where the photographer was standing
> in the early 1950's; as of about May 2019.
> https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0314035,-118.23893
> 42,3a,75y,235.06h,78.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjsfRJ
> nGDHYA6xm0-14zFOA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
>
> In my defense I can only plead that we don't see
> many photos Pacific Electric's 8th St Yard taken
> from the north end, looking south.
> Yes Rich, that's the sidewalk along Alameda St.
> and Mtr. 1607 has hold of a cut of cars on,
> probably, the same track where I witnessed
> "Old '97" comin' through, headed for Glory Land.
> In this photo it appears the crew is shoving into
> the clear and will pick-up the crummy
> waiting on the lead before capping their train and
> heading for either Butte St. or maybe even as far
> as Graham yard.
>
> Sweet picture!
>
> Charlie
>
As always Charlie,  thanks for the history lesson.  The few times I shot there, all diesel by 1960, was from the other end.  Thanks too for the ref. to the account of your first day on the job.  And here we are (I've got ya by 2 years) still following trains and enjoying photos of SoCal back in the day.
c
>
>  



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/20 18:27 by masterphots.

SGillings Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When was the yard taken out?

That's a good question; the answer to which is obscured, at least in my mind. PE's employee timetables
of that time don't really give a definitive answer, either. 

Timetable #1, effective February 21, 1960 shows "8th ST. LOS ANGELES" to be at mile post '0.0' and it
is the initial station on the line leading to "WILMINGTON (PIER A)", 20.0 miles distant. 
Timetable #2, effective January 1, 1963, (34+ months later), shows the initial station on the line 
to Wilmington to be "BUTTE ST. LOS ANGELES" and its mile post is '0.0' so it's obvious some serious
mile post re-numbering has been going on and, "8th Street Yard" has been relegated to 'Additional Station' status.

Interestingly, Timetable #2 shows a Trainmaster and four Assistant Trainmasters to be headquartered 
at 8th Street so apparently something was going on there or maybe 8th Street was simply a 'paper' point and
these five officers simply roamed around the property. 

Regardless, after the August 12, 1965 merger of PE into SP, 8th Street Yard seems to have simply been relegated
to 2nd or 3rd class status along with the once mighty Butte St. Yard and I too, would like to know when the last of the
perishable business that went on at 8th street vanished.

EDIT: Further in regard to when 8th St Yard was 'taken out', In my admittedly incomplete collection of employee timetables
the last mention of "8th Street Yard" was in the 'Additional Stations' listing of Los Angeles Division Timetable No. 8, October 30, 1977.
This places the yard still with us 12+ years after the PE-SP merger of 1965. There was no mention of the yard in my next timetable
of April 26, 1981. I'm sure others can fill in the blanks more closely than I can.

Its obvious from looking at Google that a lot of that business exists there today.

Charlie



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/20 14:58 by cewherry.

My father was a P.E. switchman/ brakeman/ motorman during the 40's and early 50's. He always said it was the best railroading job he ever held. It also looks like the guy riding on the engine is possibly the "Trolley Pup" on a reverse move

Geez, feel bad that I can't answer the question as I worked in Vernon from 1965 to 1992 though 1982 on I was in NorCal for the company.
I want to say that most of tthe yard was gone late seventies, there was still a company that took frozen in reefers across Alameda into the
mid eighties.

Out 

The Eight St Yard was taken up so that the new LA Produce Market could be built and it opened in 1986
Cliff

Here's a shot I took of SP SW1 1010 at 8th St. on 5/23/60

---

That's just as I remember 8th Street yard. 

Those SW-1's were a perfect fit for that yard; short wheelbase---better for negotiating the tight radius curves back 
around those buildings in the background; their 8 cylinder 567 engines just purred quietly between any 'kicking' moves
required and, in those days before automatic main reservoir drain valves, there was none of that incessant spitting to 
disturb anybody's quietude. And let's not forget that PE 'heritage' air whistle mounted atop the 1010's cab. Perfect.

Thanks for the memories.

Charlie

cewherry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In this photo it appears the crew is shoving into the clear and will pick-up the crummy
> waiting on the lead before capping their train and heading for either Butte St. or maybe even as far
> as Graham yard.

Given that the trainman has his hand on the rope connected to the pole, I'd say they were actually backpoling, eg, running backwards to the normal (trailing) direction of the pole. 

When backpoling, it's necessary to pull down slightly to reduce the amount of upward pressure exerted on the wire by the springs at the base of the pole as backpoling causes additional pressure on the wire due to increased friction.  Compare backpoling to writing with a pencil when most right-handed persons drag the pencil vs left-handers 'push' the pencil which is harder to do if they don't write 'backhanded' (sharply angled wrist).  I'm one of those lefties that don't write 'backhanded', so I know.

It's especially necessary to have a firm grip on the rope when backpoling through a divergent switch to ensure the pole 'chooses' the correct wire by pulling diagonally in the correct direction.  Letting the pole choose which route oftentimes it picks the wrong one (sometimes the frog in the wire may be intentionally slanted to favor one direction over another) or it picks 'none of the above' and goes out between the two wires.  Either way, if not immediately 'caught' by the trainman, the pole will start flailing around potentially causing damage to the wire and pole alike.

BRAtkinson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> cewherry Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > In this photo it appears the crew is shoving
> into the clear and will pick-up the crummy
> > waiting on the lead before capping their train
> and heading for either Butte St. or maybe even as
> far
> > as Graham yard.
>
> Given that the trainman has his hand on the rope
> connected to the pole, I'd say they were actually
> backpoling, eg, running backwards to the normal
> (trailing) direction of the pole. 

You may be entirely correct. One thing is for certain, the motorman is operating from the 'Front' cab, coupled to the box car 
while the trolleyman, aka 'trolley pup',  is maintaining a sharp lookout behind the motor. 
>
> When backpoling, it's necessary to pull down
> slightly to reduce the amount of upward pressure
> exerted on the wire by the springs at the base of
> the pole as backpoling causes additional pressure
> on the wire due to increased friction...."

> "It's especially necessary to have a firm grip on
> the rope when backpoling through a divergent
> switch to ensure the pole 'chooses' the correct
> wire by pulling diagonally in the correct
> direction.  Letting the pole choose which route
> oftentimes it picks the wrong one (sometimes the
> frog in the wire may be intentionally slanted to
> favor one direction over another) or it picks
> 'none of the above' and goes out between the two
> wires.  Either way, if not immediately 'caught'
> by the trainman, the pole will start flailing
> around potentially causing damage to the wire and
> pole alike.

Would the fact that the 1607 is equipped with PE's Pneumatic trolley base have any effect or change how
the 'pup' is handling his duties during such "backpoling" moves. In other words, does he have to be doubly vigilant
or may he rest assured that in the event the pole leaves the wire the pneumatic base will do its job to immediately
shove the pole downward, clear of all harm. Just wondering. Thanks for your comments.

Charlie

>