Nostalgia & History > The Surryhne Drill of Oakland, its Mysterious Signal, Cont'd

Drumwrencher's top notch series of West Oakland exploration threads included an undated photograph taken by his father of a maybe 15 foot tall metal frame three-legged tower wiht a signal lantern on it. What was it for? 

You can read all about that here: https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,3678792

This thread offers no answers to the enduring question but provides a bit more information, sharing a few things I found while poking around the nether regions of the internet, namely, wx4.org, the Dome O' Foam.

I flipped through digitally the 1936-1956 SP Western Division ETTs in the Timothy Zukas Collection and found in the special instructions for the Martinez Sub a rule 98 covering crossings not interlocked. There's a list of xings with instructions for each. In both 1936 and 1946 one of the xings listed is the Surryhne Drill. I looked up that name, and it turns out Surryhne is the street paralleling Wood St. on the waterside. Planned but never built, it would appear. 

1: shows a 1936 layer of an Oakland street map from http://teczno.com/old-oakland/. You can see just a little segment of a Surryhne Street  up by Wood St. where it curves to the north, next to the giant red arrow I drew in. Back when the SP and perhaps ATSF built out their franchise in West Oakland this Surryhne lead off the SP would have been "street running" down Surryhne as it followed the centerline, it looks like, of Surryhne, although Surryhne never actually became a real street, nonetheless, the lead appears to have been known by that name, at least in the ETTs of 1936 and 1946.  

2:: crop from a 1931 cimage shows this Surryhne lead running down not-built Surryhne Street before curving across Wood St. and onto 26th St. The xing of the ATSF is where the lead cross Wood St. Photo is 1931 and from the UCSB FRameFinder site. Direct download link here: http://mil.library.ucsb.edu/ap_images/c-1600/c-1600_19.tif 

3: Is Rule 98 in the ETT of 1946. You can find Rule 98 at page 27 of the pdf found here: http://wx4.org/to/foam/sp/maps/zukasETT/1946-06-02WESTERN241-TIMZUKAS.pdf

The 1950s ETTS at the Dome--I think only one included the non-interlocked crossings and this one was not listed.

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/20 15:30 by phthithu.

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Here's the 1936 ETT Rule 98. It has instructions for the Santa Fe passenger trains approaching the xing on Wood St. Basically a Santa Fe passenger train has to stop at xing if a train is on the drill track. But a passenger train can also proceed over the xing at 10mph without stopping. All other trains have to stop and flag the xing. 

By 1946 everyone, freight or passenger, can run through the xing without stopping as long there isn't a train on the intersecting track. Sort of more liberal rules. 

So, considering this signal isn't mentioned in '36 or '46 Southern Pacific ETTs, I wonder if the tall signal was something used exclusively by the Santa Fe to facilitate their passenger train moves down Wood St. This is what Evan W. says in the post linked above. I don't know the full details yet of those moves.    



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/20 22:36 by phthithu.

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Your street map is apparently the 1936 edition.

I assumed the SFe passenger trains from Oakland Pier
(until 1938) ran on off-street track, like the yard engines
carrying freight from SP to SFe circa 1970. Anyone seen
a pic of a SFe passenger train on Wood St south of 32nd St?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/20 15:37 by timz.

timz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Your street map is apparently the 1936 edition.

Thank you! Edit made to the first post. 

Next question: how did that Surryhne/Surryne St
track connect to the SP main before the IER
overpass was built? Was there a track from
Shellmound on the compass-east side of
the SP electric mains? If so, it likely didn't
exist after 1936 -- think the Bay Bridge 
overpass didn't leave room for such a track.

Looks to me like it came off of electric 6. Hard to really tell with the 1931 aerial but here is my counting marked on a detail of it. The cut of cars is on track 2, in my counting. 

I think Surryhne is the correct spelling of the name, based on the streetname, and the 1946 timetable is erroneous in that regard. 

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timz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Your street map is apparently the 1936 edition.
>
> I assumed the SFe passenger trains from Oakland
> Pier
> (until 1938) ran on off-street track, like the
> yard engines
> carrying freight from SP to SFe circa 1970. Anyone
> seen
> a pic of a SFe passenger train on Wood St south of
> 32nd St?

Sorry no. Look at the drumwrencher post linked to in the OP. Evan W replied that the ATSF used the Surryhne drill to wye passenger trains in at least the late 30's, possibly later, according to him. 

phthithu Wrote:

> 1: shows a 1936 layer of an Oakland street map
> from http://teczno.com/old-oakland/. You can see
> just a little segment of a Surryhne Street  up
> by Wood St. where it curves to the north, next to
> the giant red arrow I drew in. Back when the SP
> and perhaps ATSF built out their franchise in West
> Oakland this Surryhne lead off the SP would have
> been "street running" down Surryhne as it followed
> the centerline, it looks like, of Surryhne,
> although Surryhne never actually became a real
> street, nonetheless, the lead appears to have been
> known by that name, at least in the ETTs of 1936
> and 1946.  

If you look back at the 1942 map I posted in that old thread, it does indeed appear that the east leg of the joint SP/ATSF wye down 26th St. was coincident with that little one-block stretch of the would-be Surryhne St.

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,3678792,3679511#3679511

The aerial photo suggests that a Santa Fe train could get off the SP at around 22nd (West Grand) and proceed down Wood St. before turning east toward 40th & San Pablo.  It looks like there was also another connection closer to 40th St., and I don't honestly know which way Santa Fe passenger trains used coming and going from the Mole.  The only photos I've seen of Santa Fe passenger trains on Wood St. were taken after Santa Fe stopped using the Mole, and are presumably empty trains going to or coming from turning on the 26th St. wye.

Interesting that the 1936 ETT lists a Santa Fe/Key System crossing that didn't involve SP directly, and that it calls Key System by that name there, but on the next page, it uses the older "San Francisco & Oakland Terminal Ry" name to refer to the Key System crossing at Ward St.

 

Evan_Werkema Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> phthithu Wrote:
>
> > 1: shows a 1936 layer of an Oakland street map
> > from http://teczno.com/old-oakland/. You can
> see
> > just a little segment of a Surryhne
> Street  up
> > by Wood St. where it curves to the north, next
> to
> > the giant red arrow I drew in. Back when the SP
> > and perhaps ATSF built out their franchise in
> West
> > Oakland this Surryhne lead off the SP would
> have
> > been "street running" down Surryhne as it
> followed
> > the centerline, it looks like, of Surryhne,
> > although Surryhne never actually became a real
> > street, nonetheless, the lead appears to have
> been
> > known by that name, at least in the ETTs of
> 1936
> > and 1946.  
>
> If you look back at the 1942 map I posted in that
> old thread, it does indeed appear that the east
> leg of the joint SP/ATSF wye down 26th St. was
> coincident with that little one-block stretch of
> the would-be Surryhne St.
>
> https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11
> ,3678792,3679511#3679511
>>
> Interesting that the 1936 ETT lists a Santa Fe/Key
> System crossing that didn't involve SP directly,
> and that it calls Key System by that name there,
> but on the next page, it uses the older "San
> Francisco & Oakland Terminal Ry" name to refer to
> the Key System crossing at Ward St.
>



Great pointing out Evan. Another mystery as to why that Key System crossing is listed. I wonder if SP had use of that Santa Fe lead in the 30's? 

Here's what I found in the 1938 ETT for the Santa Fe in the Timothy Zukas collection at wx4.org. References a Rule 98(a)(b)(c) and (d) and I couldn't find that. Happens to be same number as the rule in the SP ETT. Neat to read little details like the instructions for whistling to what I would guess would be the 16th St. tower to get off or on to the SP. Some of those details let you visualize or imagine the scene. I saw some other instructions in the SP ETT  about dimming lights on Oakland Pier while ferries were arriving or dimming lights until past 16th St. power when heading east. 
 

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Here's a mark up of a detail from frame C-1820_45 of the 1931 aerial flight that captured this area which can be found at UCSB's FrameFinder site. I think this is the Key xing mentioned as being .7 miles from Oakland. Not totally sure. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/20 12:04 by phthithu.

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phthithu Wrote:

> Here's a mark up of a detail from frame C-1820_45
> of the 1931 aerial flight that captured this area
> which can be found at UCSB's FrameFinder site. I
> think this is the Key xing mentioned as being .7
> miles from Oakland. Not totally sure. 

I think you're right.  The building you circled in orange is the Key System powerhouse - note the shadow from the smokestack.  The late KeyRouteKen posted an oblique of this same scene in this old thread:

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,4241697

At the back of Demoro's The Key Route Part One, there are a series of maps drawn by Al Graves "based on official data from the 1920's."  Map 2 takes in the area from the subway to Louise St. north of where 580 is now (unfortunately, the Key did not go south of there, so there is no corresponding map of the Wood St./26th St. area).  The map shows the ATSF/Key crossing where you have it circled in red.  I take back my suggestion that there might have been a switch allowing Santa Fe trains to leave the SP and enter home rails around 40th, as the map doesn't show one.  Looks like the only way for a Santa Fe passenger train to get from the Mole to 40th & San Pablo was by exiting the SP at 22nd and running down the middle of Wood St.  All the more reason to have some sort of manual signal at 26th and Wood to indicate that there was no conflicting movement on the spur up 26th.

Interestingly, Graves' map does not show the connecting track clearly visible in the oblique and in other 1931 aerials that leaves the Santa Fe yard just east of their water tank and swings north one block to the 40th St. track that then curves down onto Wood St.  The map only shows the 40th St. track diverging from the "main" that served the Santa Fe depot and yard at a switch just east of San Pablo Ave. (also visible in the oblique), such that a passenger train couldn't stop at the Santa Fe depot and then proceed to the Mole without a backup move.  If that was the case in the 20's, it certainly looks like Santa Fe had taken steps to remedy the situation by the 30's!