Nostalgia & History > What-the-heck is the story here??

This is one of those images that just sneaks into your collection when you aren’t looking. And it just sorta hides out in one of your files. Then one day, when you are doing some major house cleaning (read: massive computer file streamlining) it just pops up and begs for your attention. When & How did this image come into your possession, Mr Garrels? “I’m sorry Senator, I have NO recollection of that event!”

Now that I’ve made absolutely zero progress figuring out this image’s origin, let’s examine the circumstances. This train is detouring westbound over the Missouri Pacific in Kansas. With the headlight(s) extinguished it appears to be stopped here in the Mop’s regular crew-change point of Council Grove. So it’s probably getting a pilot crew change. The sunlight angle would indicate mid-day or maybe early afternoon. And the foliage on the trees looks like spring or summer to me. But why was it detouring. Derailment? Flood? (If this is the early 1940s maybe a couple of Jap Zeroes somehow got past Tulsa and bombed Topeka??? ;^)

Let’s look at logistics, starting with the likely end of its detour run: My guess is this train will run west on over to Herington and back around the connection between the Mop and the Rock Island. From there it can run straight south over the Rock and regain home rails at Peabody making the right turn, westward over to Newton. If it’s a west coast-bound train it could feasibly run the Rock Island’s GSR down to Hutchinson and regain home rails at RX. But that dodges the normal full service stop (engine fuel, car water & supplies) at Newton. All things being equal, I would estimate the train running straight down to Peabody would be at the very least 30” longer than running via Hutch. If this train ran on west out of Herington over the Mop it would be reduced to using branch line trackage somewhere to regain its own La Junta main line. Otherwise it would have to run the Mop all the way to Pueblo, then double 65+ miles back to La Junta.

We haven’t looked at how this train physically got onto the Mop in the first place. The obvious choice is the connection at Osage City, KS. But I can’t remember which way the old AT&SF/Mop connection track ran there. The second-best choice would be to attain Mop rails right out of Kansas City, running the Colorado Eagle route via Osawatomie, KS. I’m pretty sure the connection would not have taken place at Ottawa. So far as I can remember there was no physical connection at the downtown, street-running crossing of the Mop & the Santa Fe’s Tulsa main line. And I’m not sure there was a connection out west of town where the Mop crossed the Santa Fe’s KC ~ Emporia DT main line at HU Tower near Richter.

After all that, all we really know for sure is this is a westbound detouring Santa Fe train led by a Warbonnet FT. Let the debate begin...

1. AT&SF 159 leads an unknown passenger train in foreign territory. This is the Mop main line at Council Grove, KS. The train is detouring, for some unknown reason...
Photo taken in the 1940s??* Photographer unknown, my collection*...

Thanks for even a shred of help!
Lance Garrels
santafe199 

...don’t even think about it, zona!

*With Mr Jim Will's incredible investgative talents the date is now believed to be July 28, 1948. And it's Santa Fe flagship "Super Chief" doing the detouring!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/23 01:15 by santafe199.

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That would be the MKT depot just to the right of the FT? So, this would have been before the MKT abandoned its line that went to where, Junction City? 

Lance, how about sometime in May, June or July of 1951. That was the year of the Great Flood, from what I have read it was raining a lot during the spring and early summer finally flooding the Kaw and other waterways of Eastern Kansas. KCRW287

WichitaJct Wrote: > ... MKT depot just to the right of the FT?

No, the MKT depot still stands in is orignal spot on Main St/US hwy 56, a couple of blocks north of this scene. That structure may be the mysterious ex-MP depot which was moved into Council Grove from ____insert name____, KS. And later moved to the NE corner of the intersection of US 56 & KS hwy 177...

And about the '51 Flood: I thought about that flood. But I'm thinking a Sante Fe FT still in R/S Warbonnet passenger paint might suggest a time significantly before 1951. Evan can surely give us some guidance in that department...

Lance

Lance, this might be about the Santa Fe at CG, KCRW287

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According to Dale Worley, in his Iron Hoses of the Santa Fe Trail, most the FTs converted  to psgr service had the conversion in 1946 and all had been converted back to frt service by July 1950. 

Well, maybe. Not sure where "west of Pueblo" was. If it was on the joint line no detour would have been necessary. If it was west of say La Junta, again, no detour on the MP would have helped with that. 

Lance, a little more on what might info on what was happening on July 28 1948. I will have to see where Coolidge Ks is located, I have never been west of Miltonvale KS or south of Rantoul KS. KCRW287

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A couple more newspaper items about ATSF name train detours in Central Kansas, around July 27-29 of 1948. Thse are from the Emporia Weekly Gazette of July 29 1948.  I would like to see the routing from where the Santa Fe got on the MOP and then run to Amarillo on ATSF rails. KCRW287

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Probably not a chance that train came across the MK&T branch from Council Grove through Dunlap & Americus, and into Emporia that way. That line was taken out in 1957.

Lance, wonder if they ran to Scott City and south to Garden City?

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