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Nostalgia & History > Where was this pair of AT&SF F45's and what train was this?


Date: 09/22/22 10:43
Where was this pair of AT&SF F45's and what train was this?
Author: valmont

... the picture is only info I have




Date: 09/22/22 10:53
Re: Where was this pair of AT&SF F45's and what train was this?
Author: santafe199

Galesburg, anyone???



Date: 09/22/22 11:04
Re: Where was this pair of AT&SF F45's and what train was this?
Author: timz

It has the adapter car -- which only ran
on the El Cap and Super/El Cap?



Date: 09/22/22 11:23
Re: Where was this pair of AT&SF F45's and what train was this?
Author: milwrdfan

Galesburg sure seems to fit, if this is an easbound.



Date: 09/22/22 11:35
Re: Where was this pair of AT&SF F45's and what train was this?
Author: BoilingMan

Amtrak cars- so either #3 or 4, name being whatever the heck it was at the time of the photo.
SR



Date: 09/22/22 12:46
Re: Where was this pair of AT&SF F45's and what train was this?
Author: PFE_COI

Nice shot taken during a very short window of time.  This power set was used on #3/4 from January through early July 1973.  Guess it was more dependable than using straight F3/F7s. 

1.  ATSF 5920   10 March 1973   Los Angeles, CA

Ron




Date: 09/22/22 12:53
Re: Where was this pair of AT&SF F45's and what train was this?
Author: santafedan

There is a dome toward the rear.  Super/ElCap or SF Chief?

timz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It has the adapter car -- which only ran
> on the El Cap and Super/El Cap?



Date: 09/22/22 12:53
Re: Where was this pair of AT&SF F45's and what train was this?
Author: randgust

Bingo, there was a very narrow time window when the leased ATSF F7's fell out of favor and the new Amtrak SDP40F's hadn't arrived - late 72 through mid 73, and you saw the F45's and FP45's back for 'one more time'.   But the FP45's had the steam generators removed, so now you paired up a surviving B-unit (A's didn't have generators) with something that ran better, or the steam generator car.  By that time only the Super Chief/El Cap was running (Chief was done as of labor day) and Amtrak hadn't been informed they couldn't use the name anymore.

So when you see that lashup, it's a time fingerprint.   Before that, you seemed to always see elephant-style F7A's so a swap was quick if a unit failed.   But I wonder to this day what exactly happened to precipitate the F45/FP45 substitution, I'm guessing road failures, but that's just speculation.



Date: 09/22/22 13:04
Re: Where was this pair of AT&SF F45's and what train was this?
Author: CBQ3006

Yes Galesburg, East bound.  



Date: 09/22/22 14:01
Re: Where was this pair of AT&SF F45's and what train was this?
Author: PHall

randgust Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bingo, there was a very narrow time window when
> the leased ATSF F7's fell out of favor and the new
> Amtrak SDP40F's hadn't arrived - late 72 through
> mid 73, and you saw the F45's and FP45's back for
> 'one more time'.   But the FP45's had the steam
> generators removed, so now you paired up a
> surviving B-unit (A's didn't have generators) with
> something that ran better, or the steam generator
> car.  By that time only the Super Chief/El Cap
> was running (Chief was done as of labor day) and
> Amtrak hadn't been informed they couldn't use the
> name anymore.
>
> So when you see that lashup, it's a time
> fingerprint.   Before that, you seemed to always
> see elephant-style F7A's so a swap was quick if a
> unit failed.   But I wonder to this day what
> exactly happened to precipitate the F45/FP45
> substitution, I'm guessing road failures, but
> that's just speculation.

None of the units shown in either of these pictures is an FP45. They're both F45's which is why they have both an B unit and a steam generator car to provide steam for both heating and cooling.



Date: 09/23/22 05:09
Re: Where was this pair of AT&SF F45's and what train was this?
Author: JPB

CBQ3006 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes Galesburg, East bound.  

Just to unconfuse me, is this the AT&SF station in Galesburg, as opposed to the ex-CB&Q station now used by Amtrak?



Date: 09/23/22 05:12
Re: Where was this pair of AT&SF F45's and what train was this?
Author: Spoony81

JPB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CBQ3006 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Yes Galesburg, East bound.  
>
> Just to unconfuse me, is this the AT&SF station in
> Galesburg, as opposed to the ex-CB&Q station now
> used by Amtrak?

Yes, the ATSF station

Posted from iPhone



Date: 09/23/22 06:07
Re: Where was this pair of AT&SF F45's and what train was this?
Author: randgust

You'll see pictures of the train in that era with both FP45's and F45's, the easiest spotting feature is the side-sill cutout.  Yes those are F45's.   

Just pointing out that the FP45's with a B unit for steam generator (and or the generator car) were done because the steam generators had been removed.   You'd think it would have been easier just to put the FP45's back on, but that was the issue necessitating the steam generator helpers.

The FP45's also showed up on the Super C in red and silver during the same era, two of them (5942 and 5944) lasted in that paint longer than most.



Date: 09/23/22 07:00
Re: Where was this pair of AT&SF F45's and what train was this?
Author: PFE_COI

Yes, the FP45s were also used...here's a photo of ATSF 5944 on the point along with a F45 and a brand new SDP40F.

1.  ATSF 5944, ATSF 5934, AMTK 501     26 June 1973    Albuquerque, NM

Ron   




Date: 09/23/22 07:43
Re: Where was this pair of AT&SF F45's and what train was this?
Author: randgust

That's a WOW shot if I've ever seen one, thanks!



Date: 09/23/22 07:44
Re: Where was this pair of AT&SF F45's and what train was this?
Author: Topfuel

randgust Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bingo, there was a very narrow time window when
> the leased ATSF F7's fell out of favor and the new
> Amtrak SDP40F's hadn't arrived - late 72 through
> mid 73, and you saw the F45's and FP45's back for
> 'one more time'......

If I'm not mistaken, it wasn't so much that the F's had fallen out of favor, but that they were being rounded up and sent to Cleburne for the CF7 conversion project, thus inducing a shortage of Santa Fe F units to use on Amtrak trains.  I seem to recall that this was what triggered the initial order of SDP40F's.



Date: 09/23/22 08:26
Re: Where was this pair of AT&SF F45's and what train was this?
Author: dan

randgust Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's a WOW shot if I've ever seen one, thanks!

sure is, the f45 carbody above the air tank is interesting



Date: 09/23/22 08:59
Re: Where was this pair of AT&SF F45's and what train was this?
Author: OldPorter

JPB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Just to unconfuse me, is this the AT&SF station in
> Galesburg, as opposed to the ex-CB&Q station now
> used by Amtrak?

Just for a bit of further info- the Galesburg ATSF Station was on Broad St.
The ex CB&Q/ Burlington Station (the one in use today) is on Seminary St.
Both Lines cross at a Stone Viaduct, at a place called Peck Park. Well worth a visit
is you're ever out that way. A 20 minute walk from the Seminary St. depot.



Date: 09/23/22 23:37
Re: Where was this pair of AT&SF F45's and what train was this?
Author: Evan_Werkema

Topfuel Wrote:

> If I'm not mistaken, it wasn't so much that the
> F's had fallen out of favor, but that they were
> being rounded up and sent to Cleburne for the CF7
> conversion project, thus inducing a shortage of
> Santa Fe F units to use on Amtrak trains.  I seem
> to recall that this was what triggered the initial
> order of SDP40F's.

Santa Fe leased their enlarged 300-class (300LABC-314LABC, 315LAB, 316AB-321AB) to Amtrak as a dedicated pool, so it was not a matter of the railroad having trouble scrounging up enough passenger F's out of its general fleet to power Amtrak trains on a daily basis.  The trouble, according to a photo caption on page 14 of High Green to Marceline, was that the old F's were simply becoming too unreliable:

"Old age was creeping up on the Santa Fe passenger F-unit fleet by early 1973, resulting in repeated delays to Amtrak's Super Chief.  Santa Fe, tired of the situation, unilaterally replaced the F-units on the train with F45's, an F-unit booster, and a steam generator car for steam.  The unusual power consists were replaced in mid-1973 with the arrival of the new Amtrak SDP40Fs." was the F's were becoming unreliable

The early 1973 lease-return only involved about half of the leased F's according to Santa Fe's Diesel Fleet.  Santa Fe took back 38 of the 74 F-units (A's and B's) leased to Amtrak in January 1973, substituting F45's and FP45's.  The order for the first 40 SDP40F's had been placed a couple of months earlier in November 1972, so the lease-return didn't trigger the order.  The SDP40F's started arriving in June, and the remaining 36 F's were released back to Santa Fe by the end of July.



Date: 09/25/22 02:55
Re: Where was this pair of AT&SF F45's and what train was this?
Author: mp51w

That is really a great image of the 3 different engines. I don't believe I've ever seen that before.



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