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Nostalgia & History > SP's odd pairing ... BW GP with a KM


Date: 03/18/23 13:18
SP's odd pairing ... BW GP with a KM
Author: valmont

No other info ... how about location?

A 'thank you' edit: See all the answers in johnsweetser post below

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/23 14:44 by valmont.




Date: 03/18/23 13:21
Re: SP's odd pairing ... BW GP with a KM
Author: ns2557

valmont Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No other info ... how about location?

Bealville Ca. Ben



Date: 03/18/23 13:26
Re: SP's odd pairing ... BW GP with a KM
Author: valmont

ns2557 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> valmont Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > No other info ... how about location?
>
> Bealville Ca. Ben

How about a quick answer? ; ^ )



Date: 03/18/23 13:27
Re: SP's odd pairing ... BW GP with a KM
Author: dmaffei

Great photo. Seems to me the SP paired the KM with a F7 "B" unit or other EMD four axle locomotives after seeing photos like this. Maybe as protection in case the KM went bad? Maybe Mr Zink is out there with an answer. Hope his revised KM book is out soon.... 
Thanks for sharing this gem.



Date: 03/18/23 14:22
Re: SP's odd pairing ... BW GP with a KM
Author: johnsweetser

Helpers returning to Bakersfield.

When this photo was posted on Trainorders 9 years ago (at https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,3212826,3213660) by "Rplus LJetService", the date was stated as 1966 and the photographer was identified as Tom Gildersleeve.

Tom Gildersleeve also took a photo of the two engines being cut out of a freight at Summit Switch, which can be seen in the photo for September in the Steamscenes 2000 Southern Pacific calendar.
 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/23 14:30 by johnsweetser.



Date: 03/18/23 14:38
Re: SP's odd pairing ... BW GP with a KM
Author: dragoon

dmaffei Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for sharing this gem.

perchance, do you have a slibling whose first initial is K?  ;^)



Date: 03/18/23 16:28
Re: SP's odd pairing ... BW GP with a KM
Author: HardYellow

East switch Bealville



Date: 03/18/23 16:39
Re: SP's odd pairing ... BW GP with a KM
Author: TCnR

Impressive recall.
Great photo, great photographer. Amazing times long past.
t4p.

johnsweetser Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Helpers returning to Bakersfield.
>
> When this photo was posted on Trainorders 9 years
> ago (at
> https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11
> ,3212826,3213660) by "Rplus LJetService", the date
> was stated as 1966 and the photographer was
> identified as Tom Gildersleeve.
>
> Tom Gildersleeve also took a photo of the two
> engines being cut out of a freight at Summit
> Switch, which can be seen in the photo for
> September in the Steamscenes 2000 Southern Pacific
> calendar.
>  



Date: 03/18/23 17:08
Re: SP's odd pairing ... BW GP with a KM
Author: WP921

In situations like this, was the Diesel-Electric actually Mu'd to the Diesel-Hydraulic, or was it simply isolated and along for the ride in case something went wrong with the KM?  In other words, could the Engineer on the KM control both units or just the KM?



Date: 03/18/23 17:30
Re: SP's odd pairing ... BW GP with a KM
Author: alongthejointline

Apparently available for preorder now with shippng expected March 31. https://www.arizonahobbies.com/southern-pacific-and-the-k-m-hydraulics.html
No sign of it on the SPH&TS website.

dmaffei Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
 Maybe Mr Zink is out there with an answer. Hope his revised KM book is out soon....



Date: 03/18/23 17:43
Re: SP's odd pairing ... BW GP with a KM
Author: PHall

WP921 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In situations like this, was the Diesel-Electric
> actually Mu'd to the Diesel-Hydraulic, or was it
> simply isolated and along for the ride in case
> something went wrong with the KM?  In other
> words, could the Engineer on the KM control both
> units or just the KM?

I don't think they would have been used as helpers on Tehachapi if the engineer couldn't control both units at the same time.



Date: 03/18/23 17:44
Re: SP's odd pairing ... BW GP with a KM
Author: RailRat

All these years I just simply admired the "handsome" looks of these KM units, never really thought much about the details of how these KM units got power to the wheels until now after reading the post linked above,( and screenshot of paragraph below),it mentions gears and hydraulics.
Which led me to question exactly how power was transferred to the axles, was it gears like a model train? Or hydraulic traction motors?

Funny, as a youngster I assumed the real diesels wheels were all powered by gears to the axles just like the model trains I was more familiar with, or also like a car or truck drive train,
I was amazed to find out they were Electric motors powering those wheels!

Jim Baker
Riverside, CA



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/23 17:48 by RailRat.




Date: 03/18/23 18:18
Re: SP's odd pairing ... BW GP with a KM
Author: Notch16

The photo is associated with Gordon Glattenberg. (And hi, Dave; yep, I'm here.)

The Tehachapi Helper photo is dated by the 9100-series number on the 1961 SP ML4000 "Prototype" - November 15, 1965 was the renumbering and reclassification (from DF-800 to KF636A-1) and from 9001 to 9101. 

That in turn means that the original SP and DRGW trios had been split up, to stand on their own 12 feet as individual locomotives on the duty roster. What had also happened is that these 1961 Prototypes had been rebuilt, new controls added and MU capabilities, and they were turning in fairly good availabilitites.

And on the downside, one ex-Rio Grande unit, barely renumbered as SP 9021, had burned up on Donner while still in Rio Grande colors -- SP and Rio Grande had ignored KM's service bulletin to replace needle bearings in the truck driveshafts with roller bearings, and one small axle gearbox shaft let go, punched a hole in a transmission oil pan, and caught the unit on fire. It was parked for months while its fate was argued (who was gonna pay?) in full view of crews outside Sacramento General Shops' RIP track, and led to the wildfire rumors that a main driveshaft had let go and torn up the cab. (It never happened. The unit burned because no one was paying close enough attention to maintenance first, or the locked wheels of a trailing unit in consist second.)

So crews started balking at riding point with a KM, because the forward main shafts were underfoot in the cab. SP had always hedged their bets with booster helpers for single KMs anyway. But by 1966 you started seeing KMs as trailing units only. In this case, it's probably just the draw off the Bakersfield deck that day.

Coupled to these Prototypes, you could see anything from an F-unit A or B, a GP9, a KM Series (1964 roadswitcher) Unit, even Alco C-628s and C-630s. (In that case, it's debatable who was protecting who!) What you'd not see by 1965 or 1966 is two Prototypes together. All three ex-Rio Grande units were owned by SP at that point, all six '61 Prototypes were painted Scarlet & Gray, and all the Prototypes were retired by late 1967, operating alone or with protection.

R&LHS tried to save one, but SP refused. PLA tried to get an excursion to run behind one, but by Spring '67 all three were tied up in Roseville with small maladies, and SP did not invest in shelves full of service parts, so they sat. A 1964 Series Unit powered the 1967 PLA excursion instead, SP 9120.

The KM book's later than planned, but still headed for the finish line soon -- including more pics of Prototypes, more stories & drawings, more info on the incident mentioned, just more all around. Other than that, Dave, I'm unfamiliar with this topic.  ;-)

~ BZ
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/23 18:24 by Notch16.




Date: 03/18/23 18:22
Re: SP's odd pairing ... BW GP with a KM
Author: Notch16

Hydraulic motors drove the radiator fans. Ungeared torque converter transmissions powered by the prime movers drove a main gearbox on each truck, and that was connected by driveshafts to hypoid gear drives at each axle.



Date: 03/19/23 11:32
Re: SP's odd pairing ... BW GP with a KM
Author: RailRat

Notch16 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hydraulic motors drove the radiator fans. Ungeared
> torque converter transmissions powered by the
> prime movers drove a main gearbox on each truck,
> and that was connected by driveshafts to hypoid
> gear drives at each axle.

Thanks for that info.b

Jim Baker
Riverside, CA



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