Canadian Railroads > Renovation of the Park Car

Does anyone have knowledge of what type of renovation will occur with the Park Car?
I have riden in this car in '03 and it was a pleasure and I am curious what they will be turned in to and how long will it take.
We need to do a lot for our own US cars and I feel that the Candian RR is on the right track and hope that Amtrak gets out of its siding.
Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.

Hal

alaska Wrote:
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> We need to do a lot for our own US cars and I feel
> that the Candian RR is on the right track and hope
> that Amtrak gets out of its siding.
> Any info would be greatly appreciated.
> Thank you.
>
> Hal

If its my understanding, Amtrak is doing their own refurbishment of a lot of their fleet with the Stimulus funds that the Obama Administration alotted. Via is only doing so many cars in its fleet, actually contracted to a US firm in Wisconsin.

BNSF3450



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/11 07:07 by BNSF3450.

The Park series cars are being reworked by the capable crew at Avalon Rail Inc. in Milwaukee Wisconsin. This is a thread that has been brought up time and again on this site and much information can be accessed simply by using the search feature provided by webmaster Todd. I'm not trying to be a killjoy, but this has been subject of much discussion since VIA decided to do whatever it is they have imagined to be the "bright future" for these unique cars.

Has any of the cars come back to VIA yet ? It's been over a year since I saw the following cars on a CP freight in Galt, Ontario 12-1-2009.

8709 Laurentide Park
8708 Kootenay Park
8206 Chateau Denonville
8207 Chateau Dollard
8213 Chateau Lauzon
8226 Chateau Salaberry

M-636 Wrote:
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> Has any of the cars come back to VIA yet ? It's
> been over a year since I saw the following cars on
> a CP freight in Galt, Ontario 12-1-2009.
>
> 8709 Laurentide Park
> 8708 Kootenay Park
> 8206 Chateau Denonville
> 8207 Chateau Dollard
> 8213 Chateau Lauzon
> 8226 Chateau Salaberry

None has been completed. According to the Bytown Railway Society's latest magazine the following are also at Avalon Rail:

Château Jolliet
Château Maisonneuve
Château Varennes
Glacier Park

"One more Château sleeper and Park car will follow."

park cars are getting huge rooms basically

dan Wrote:
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> park cars are getting huge rooms basically

The program only involves creating these "huge deluxe rooms" for 4 Park Cars and 8 Chateau Cars - to be used specifically on the Canadian. So there will still be plenty Park Cars and Chateau sleepers left in their regular configuration for other routes and even to augment the Manor Series sleepers in the consists.

As painful as it is for the traditionalists among us, the tight, utilitarian confines of 1950s Budd rooms -- great as they were and as great as we've come to see them -- don't immediately speak of 'luxury' to modern cruise travelers. And a land cruise is what the business is now for VIA. So the flat screen TVs I've read about in the new deluxe rooms are there because the ocean cruise lines and hotels have raised that expectation and created that context for luxury among the pop-u-lation.

Restricting the dome seating of that car to the people who paid for it is also counter to our traditional notion of available non-revenue space for all within a single class, but that's also a changing expectation. Boomers don't even have train memories any more as a rule, and Echo Boomers are the new desirable demographic for premium travel. Snowboarding parents with dual incomes. And they're going to want that dome for themselves. Anyway, that's my supposition about where VIA is looking now and for the future.

Me, I'll hang onto my favoritism for how Budd did it to begin with, and hope a few of those lovely stainless cars survive that way -- it's been almost 20 years since I ponied up the mazumas to ride the Canadian, and I'd love to think there's a little bit of a time machine left.

~ BZ

Typically, during the tourist season, the "Canadian" sees the greatest ridership between Vancouver BC and Jasper AB., although a substantial number of sleeping car passengers do opt for the transcontinental ride to Toronto ON.

Jasper presents a challenge to group tour operators. Being more than 400 miles east of Vancouver, it represents either a very long one day bus ride, or a two day bus or "Rocky Mountaineer" train ride with an overnight at Kamloops. The overnight train ride from Vancouver to Jasper is a popular alternative in that it saves a day.

The point about cruise ship clientele expecting more than traditional railway sleeping cars is well taken. The provision of flat screen TV's and other exclusive amenities makes sense when you consider that passengers are boarding the "Canadian" late in the evening in Vancouver, and for the initial portion of the trip at least, there is nothing to see outside the windows.

Via competes head to head with the "Rocky Mountaineer" for the Vancouver-Jasper traffic. The clientele of the "Canadian" are choosing that train to save time getting to the mountain parks, and incidentally sample the novelty of sleeping and dining on the train. The "Rocky" passengers ride to see the scenery en route to Jasper.

Who rides the "Canadian" between Vancouver and Jasper? Overwhelmingly, package tour groups from overseas, and generally an older crowd. Face it, the snowboarding yuppies go to Whistler, or drive their BMW's to Jasper.

Alaska Railroad serves both the luxury tour train market, and the social transportation market by hauling the cruise line owned tour cars behind the regular passenger train. Perhaps this is a solution for Via Rail, keep the regular transcontinental passenger train for the taxpayers who pay for its operation, and have the luxury accomodations provided by the tour operators.
Via would get compensated for the hook and pull operation of the self contained deluxe cars, and at the same time provide affordable transportation to those Canadians who desire or need to ride it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/11 11:58 by eminence_grise.

eminence_grise Wrote:
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> Alaska Railroad serves both the luxury tour train
> market, and the social transportation market by
> hauling the cruise line owned tour cars behind the
> regular passenger train. Perhaps this is a
> solution for Via Rail, keep the regular
> transcontinental passenger train for the taxpayers
> who pay for its operation, and have the luxury
> accomodations provided by the tour operators.
> Via would get compensated for the hook and pull
> operation of the self contained deluxe cars, and
> at the same time provide affordable transportation
> to those Canadians who desire or need to ride it.

Post well taken. When VIA rescheduled its Vancouver to Jasper route of the Canadian, I figured Rocky Mountaineer was doomed on this segment of its trips offered. But that really didn't seem to be the case. However, Rocky I think did reduce some trips on this segment and is even introducing a "Silver Leaf" service on its Vancouver-Banff-Calgary route. Clearly it sees the CP route to Calgary as a unique and popular opportunity - which it is since it is the only seasonal/regular operator between Kamloops and Banff-Calgary.

But even with the "Deluxe Service" in place, local Canadians are still likely "priced out" of the Canadian passenger train service most of the year. And with the Canadian's much padded schedule, it is geared more as a land cruise - taking its time across the country.

Like the Alaska RR model, I always thought this part would be good for Rocky Mountaineer to introduce on its Vancouver-Banff-Calgary route or Whistler-Quesnel-Jasper route - hosting tourists in its Red and Gold Leaf service, while providing some sort of basic transportation service for "the locals." It could certainly offer a "limited" offering of stops along the route, or say on the Vancouver to Calgary route - only offer the "basic transportation" model between Kamloops and Banff since VIA serves Kamloops and Vancouver. Same could be said on the Whistler-Quesnel-Jasper route, where it could just operte "basic service" between some point around Prince George and Whistler, since runs between Jasper and Prince George.

But Rocky has repeatedly stated its intention to stay out of the local market of transporting passengers and strictly go after the high-end tourist service. I wish Rocky would just "try it" and see what happens. See if it does dilute its overall service brands or holds its own.

Many have stated that they would love to see the Whistler Mountaineer stop at Squamish! I certainly could see that being successful for this train.

Question about the large screen TV's.

How are they going to pick up transmittion deep in those canyons between Vancouver and Jasper?

I'm thinking they will be like an airline entertainment system, showing videos on demand etcetera from a central computer on board.

I have to disagree with the "nothing to see at night" comment. Two reasons. First, in summer, it's daylight up north well past 10P. Second, with the lights out (ask the attendant to do so if they aren't) and the view of the signals and headlight can be mesmerizing.

jp1822 Wrote:
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>
> But even with the "Deluxe Service" in place, local
> Canadians are still likely "priced out" of the
> Canadian passenger train service most of the year.

Have you travelled on The Canadian lately?

I travel on it 2-3 times per year in sleeper. It is a convenient and enjoyable way to travel between Toronto and Winnipeg. On my winter trips, almost all my fellow sleeper passengers are "local Canadians" if by local you mean they live in Canada.

In the summer, there are more tour groups but I'd say that these days close to half of my fellow sleeper passengers are Canadians. This is quite different from my trips five years ago or so when the vast majority of passengers were American or from overseas.

VIA offers so many discounts and seat sales that most people who can afford to travel can afford to take the train. Their Express Deals often offer less than $400 between Toronto and Vancouver in a sleeper. Find me a flight and hotel package between Toronto and Vancouver that includes 4 nights accommodation and all meals for under $400.

This next statement is not aimed at you but at the community in general: if more railfans would travel VIA instead of just talking about it, VIA's future would be more secure.

http://www.viarail.ca/en/deals

-Jason

Yes, I have travelled the Canadian recently. I also try to make 2 to 3 trips per year, with 2 largely in the "off-season" and yes, I meet a lot of fellow Canadians aboard. It's my favorite time to ride. When the "Canadian" expands its consist in the summer - largely for tour groups - this is when I see less Canadians aboard, but nonetheless, they are there. Unfortunately, my first trip aboard the Canadian this year won't be until early May. I'll miss the winter season, but will likely be on the tail end of the "off-peak" season.

EDIT: To clarify, when I have ridden this train, may Canadians still say how expensive it is to travel on the "Canadian" and that it has gotten more and more expensive for them over the years. I've often sat with Canadian (locals) coach passengers in the Diner who have said that they wish they could have afforded a sleeper, but can't because it is too expensive. Yes, VIA offers some promotions (I've taken advantage of what I can when I travel), but I just hope that VIA doesn't price itself too far out of the market with its new "Deluxe Class."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/11 11:34 by jp1822.