Canadian Railroads > VIA Rail "Ocean" Question

The following question was today received via a friend in Melbourne, Australia. Any insights would be appreciated.

"I have just completed a trip by rail across Canada -- what an awesome journey. from Montreal to Halifax, I travelled on a train called the Ocean, which was a 20-car train. Most of the cars are British in design and made by GEC Alstom. I was told that they were purchased secondhand. Can you give me any details of these cars? - Rob McMurray"

This was originally built as "Nightstar" equipment to be used through the Channel tunnel for business class travellers to travel overnight between London and various European cities. I believe the Sea Containers Corporation was going to own and operate the trains.

They were late being delivered because of a number of design changes , and by the time they were ready to operate, it was thought that there would not be a market for the service. Business travellers either flew on the newly deregulated discount airlines, or travelled on the "Eurostar" daytime train services through the channel tunnel.

The partially completed trains were put in storage and then offered for sale. Via Rail obtained the "Nightstar" cars at a discount price and I think the owners were glad to get them out of Europe where they had become a political embarrassment.

Via completed the outfitting of the various types of cars, including some very different configurations than those in the original design.

Via even retained some partially completed shells, but later had them scrapped, as if the original owner had some influence on the new owners, by requesting that any surplus cars be scrapped rather than sold on.

Click on "Renaissance" cars here under Our Fleet for info:

http://www.viarail.ca/en/about-via-rail/our-fleet

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What a huge mistake it was for VIA to buy passenger cars built for the British loading gauge when North America allows for 20 foot heights in most places.

shoretower Wrote:
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> What a huge mistake it was for VIA to buy
> passenger cars built for the British loading gauge
> when North America allows for 20 foot heights in
> most places.

The bean counters would disagree with you.
In their eyes they got brand new, never in service equipment at a rather steep discount.
Nevermind the costs to bring it to Canada and to modify it...

Milepost_130 Wrote:
. Most of the cars
> are British in design and made by GEC Alstom.

The TSG says they were built by Metropolitan-Cammell. For all I know, that might be a division of GEC-Alsthom.

I finally got to ride them last fall. I thought the sleepers were OK, even though I prefer the aesthetics of the Budd sleepers. We did have a Skyline on the end of the train, where we spent much of the trip anyway. The ride in the Ren sleeper was smoother and quieter than my last ride in a Budd drawing room.

GTD

The ride in the Ren cars is excellent. The sleepers also have much better air quality than the Budd ones.

KG

VIA needed largely long distance equipment during this time period - and the Renaissance equipment fit the bill - price wise and in terms of availability. No one is turning out long distance passenger rail equipment in North America on a regular basis and Amtrak needs all the equipment it can get (i.e. VIA often looks for the hand-me-downs from Amtrak).

The other original intention was to outfit the Chaleur (train to Gaspe) with the Renaissance fleet. But VIA said they did not have enough long distance Renaisaance equipment to do this year-round. This likely would have come from finishing the remaining Renaissance shells if VIA had the chance or opportunity. But, since the Ocean has gone tri-weekly since then, VIA may have enough equipment now to equip the Chaleur with Renaissance equipment! However, the "split" and "combo" of the train could be a little tricky. And of course right now, the Chaleur is not going all the way to Gaspe.

To me, the Renaissance long distance equipment was meant for the short-overnight journey - this is why no diners were part of the original design. Thus, VIA's Enterprise that carried the Renaissance equipment was ideal as you boarded at night and got off in early morning. But VIA ran that train wrong - in my opinion (story for another day). In general, they should have operated it more along the corridor perhaps - Quebec City - Montreal - Ottawa - Toronto (or some variation thereof).

VIA had to modify three sleepers to make the current "Renaissance Diners" for the Ocean. Likewise, the lack of a descent "lounge" car for the "daylight" journey of the Ocean is not very accomodating. The addition of a Park Car - for Touring Class during peak season helps alleviate this issue and the addition of a Skyline in off-peak equally helps. But not sure how long the off-peak will last with a Skyline Dome.

I do hope the train to Gaspe returns (all the way to Gaspe that is) and retains its Budd Equipment. In the mean time, VIA Rail does have some surplus Renaissance sleepers (and long distance equipment in general) as a result of recent curtailments.

I have been on REN coaches for the overnight Enterprise. For sleeping, obviously better than a HEP-II, but inferior to a HEP-I, which I had on the Canadian. I would not bother riding one to Halifax. Had enough trouble sleeping for an hour on the Enterprise. It is also too bright inside. I generally get in 3 - 4 hours on Amtrak's Amfleet-2 or Superliner.

VIA needed the Budd sleepers from the Ocean to put on the Canadian - to meet summer demand. The Renaissance sleepers were sought to fit that requirement. Coaches I can't comment on, but Renassiance coach travel all the way from Montreal to Halifax or even overnight on the former Enterprise Montreal to Toronto, I wouldn't advise. The Renaissance coaches were meant for short corridor/short distance travel. The Renaissance coaches for long distance travel should have been modified like the Amtrak Amfleet II's or Superliners. Personally, on my last trip aboard the LRC's business class I felt cramped. The stainless steel Budd Equipment in business class seemed to offer more room - but showed their age.....