Canadian Railroads > VIA Train 2, Very Late Canadian Question

Late arrivals of VIA Train 2, the Canadian in Toronto have been discussed to a degree here.  Toronto because of the rather short turn around time for the train a opposed to Vancouver where turn around is a matter of days.

So my specific questions would apply to yesterday's (Sat) example:  Yesterday's Train 2 into Toronto on the 14th was generally running around 13 - 15 hours late according to Trac a Train.  If correct, this would put it into Toronto past the departure time (10 PM)
of that day's Train 1.  An engine crew that started in Capreol would need 8 hours rest prior to heading back to Cap which would make for a very late--or early morning departure.  However, today I noted Train 1 only running about 5 hours late going back west.  Even with a late departure of around 3 AM, this doesn't seem like enough time from the 13 - 14 hour late Train 2 to be cleaned, stocked, serviced, and loco crew to get 8 hours rest.  So my questions would be:

1)  Was there an additional equipment set in place for Saturday evening's departure (or early morning)?
2)  What about the engine crew getting 8 hours of rest and getting back to work which must take more than the required 8 hours from a logistical standpoint?
3)  If there was indeed an additional equipment set ready for use, were passengers allowed to board at a decent hour and go to bed while still in the station while waiting for crews to return as has happened to me on departures whose arrival equipment had far more time to be "turned" (not really, as train heads out of station in same direction it enters station) than yesterday's train?  Or would passengers have to wait it out for the late departure in the station or First Class Lounge?
4)  And what about on board service crews?  What kind of rest do they get after working a very late incoming train?  I had heard that on one occasion a new on board crew was flown in from Winnipeg but do not know if this would be standard practice in the case of a very late arriving Train 2 at Toronto.

The above presumes Train 2 did in fact arrive Toronto Union Station 12 - 15 hours late;  I did  not check with VIA, only using Trac a Train info.  So how about DrawingroomA having something to say on this as I regard him as the real expert on such matters.  THANKS!!

Thank you for your confidence, but I am not an expert on any subject. I can only share my experiences and any information I receive from the real experts at VIA. Unfortunately I have not been able to determine the answer to questions 1 and 2, despite having made enquiries. There is no reason why there cannot be a complete set of the Canadian in Toronto during the off-peak season. In the past few weeks I have observed many Manor sleepers, a diner, a Skyline car or two and there are usually some HEP-1 coaches around the yard. It is possible there could be a complete train-set inside the Maintenance Centre. Several times lately the Canadian has departed five hours after its late arrival. Saturday's train which, in the morning, had an ETA of 0120 Sunday morning made up quite a bit of time and arrived approximately 22:00. Its departure was approximately 03:00.

I have been advised by several employees, including a head office manager, that the on-board crew gets only enough time to go to their hotel rooms for a shower and a brief nap. Even if there is a fresh consist, passengers generally board only a half hour before departure. Regular sleeper passengers rest in the "Business Lounge" and those in Prestige are given rooms in the Royal York Hotel until boarding time.

I am told it is rare for an on-board crew to be flown out from Winnipeg, although it has happened. The expense is considerable, not just for the flights, but the crew who are replaced have to be returned home dead-head. A few years ago on the w/b Canadian I met a few (four I believe) Toronto-based corridor service attendants who were being trained to work the Canadian in an emergency. I don't know if they have ever made a trip.

Note to Amtrak. The 5 hour equipment turn around time in Toronto. Amtrak can't do the same in Chicago because? 

Toronto is a turn-around point, not a major maintenance facility like Chicago. For the Canadian, Winnipeg and Vancouver are.

Well, any way you look at it, the 5 hour turn around in Toronto is good in my view on the Canadian which requires lots of care, I would think.  Much stocking of lots of food, drink, linens. And heavy cleaning.   But my sympathy to the crew;  into Toronto at 10 PM, and back to work to load passengers in the middle of the night for a 3 AM departure!  And in my experience, I've never had or seen a VIA person get ugly!

My guess, and it is only a guess, is that at this time of year a different equipment set is put into place with such a late arrival with a lot of the above work done.  On my last trip with pre Prestige Park cars, arrival was around 5:30 PM, I think, give or take.  The Train 2 had traveled through heavy winter, vestibules looking like the Arctic filled snow, ice, showers frozen.  Had been -40C at Hornepayne.  When went to re board westbound Train 1 the same night at around 11 PM, there was a different equipment set in place, different car names and all totally clean, dry, and thawed vestibules.  Same on board crew but we waited until after midnight for loco crew to return.  Only thing missing on the new equipment was not enough silverware.  We had to wait in Capreol while the dining car SM went into town to purchase more.  But all in all, pretty good turn around under rather hard conditions.  And off season there is extra equipment available for a different equipment set if  they want to use it.

All I know for sure is that I look forward to boarding at WPG on March 20, to head to Vancouver for my annual Train 1 - 2 ride.  Then to Toronto and back to WPG and I will enjoy every minute regardless of timekeeping.  If way late, well, more time on the train for same dollars as some of us say, the CN not withstanding.

Amtrak turns the EB and Chief on the west coast in matter of hours.
This goes to show what an arrogant and dysfunctional outfit the CN is, with 12 hour lateness, taking 36 hours longer to get a passenger train across the country than it did 30 years ago.

Absolutely!  The majority of my delays on Trains 1 - 2 have been CN caused delays.  Has made me wonder how they treat their own customers as my guess would be that their freights are running late, too.

I think it has been shown over the decades there is a high correlation to poor handling of passenger trains and of freight customers, whether it be Espee, Penn Central, NS meltowns in Indiana, BNSF biting off more than they can chew on the High Line.