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European Railroad Discussion > Oh to be in England: York 1984 Part 1


Date: 02/25/21 16:24
Oh to be in England: York 1984 Part 1
Author: NMlurker

Being so close to York pretty much mandated a trip to the National Railway Museum. I have to admit that I have zero recollection of that experience. Historic British locomotives (mostly steam) and rolling stock (carriages, wagons) held only so much appeal to a young American. And no offense/offence intended whatsoever regarding that fine museum. But fortunately, my host indulged me in allowing me to spend time in York photographing anything and everything that rolled by in the present day operations. I want to say that I was on some sort of pedestrian bridge (that I no longer see in satellite maps) and stayed as long as possible until it was time to drive home for a home-cooked English meal.

1. A Class 47 brings a train into York from the north. I no longer see the signal bridge in sateillte images and I am led to believe that this line is now electrified.

2. A Class 45/1 No. 45108 has arrived at the York station from the south. Even 36 years ago I found this class to be exotic and compelling. Having a nose and that distinctive arched windshield adds to the character. And not many diesels have leading and trailing idler axles for a 1Co-Co1 configuration.

3. Class 31/1 No. 31144 passes by light. Another blue star locomotive and I don't know what is going on with the white circles below the class lights. It is fun to look at the old cars in the parking lot (car park).








Date: 02/25/21 16:26
Re: Oh to be in England: York 1984 Part 1
Author: NMlurker

4. And here is Class 31/1 No. 31144 going away. In the background an Inter-City 125 is arriving.

5. Class 45/1 No. 45108 has uncoupled from its train and heads for service. In this view the idler axles are visible. The long trucks (bogies) leave little room for a fuel tank where it would be on the typical American locomotive.

6. Another view of Class 45/1 No. 45108 with a proper English neighborhood in the background.








Date: 02/25/21 19:56
Re: Oh to be in England: York 1984 Part 1
Author: exhaustED

Great snapshots in time before the east coast mainline was electrified. All 3 of those successful loco types were mixed traffic locos. The peaks were the UK's heaviest locos at about 135 tonnes, hence the 'pony truck/axle'. 2500hp Sulzer engined.
The 47s were very numerous, 2580hp Sulzer engined (derated from 2750hp due to problems).
The 31s were 1470hp, English Electric - often double-headed on freight. Most had a box on the cab roof but the one you've photographed was one that didn't, so they got the nickname 'skinheads'! The white circles were headcode marker discs (They allowed small lights to be either seen or obscured). 



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/21 20:07 by exhaustED.



Date: 02/26/21 01:20
Re: Oh to be in England: York 1984 Part 1
Author: Hexagon789

NMlurker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Being so close to York pretty much mandated a trip
> to the National Railway Museum. I have to admit
> that I have zero recollection of that experience.
> Historic British locomotives (mostly steam) and
> rolling stock (carriages, wagons) held only so
> much appeal to a young American. And no
> offense/offence intended whatsoever regarding that
> fine museum. But fortunately, my host indulged me
> in allowing me to spend time in York photographing
> anything and everything that rolled by in the
> present day operations. I want to say that I was
> on some sort of pedestrian bridge (that I no
> longer see in satellite maps) and stayed as long
> as possible until it was time to drive home for a
> home-cooked English meal.
>
> 1. A Class 47 brings a train into York from the
> north. I no longer see the signal bridge in
> sateillte images and I am led to believe that this
> line is now electrified.
>
> 2. A Class 45/1 No. 45108 has arrived at the York
> station from the south. Even 36 years ago I found
> this class to be exotic and compelling. Having a
> nose and that distinctive arched windshield adds
> to the character. And not many diesels have
> leading and trailing idler axles for a 1Co-Co1
> configuration.
>
> 3. Class 31/1 No. 31144 passes by light. Another
> blue star locomotive and I don't know what is
> going on with the white circles below the class
> lights. It is fun to look at the old cars in the
> parking lot (car park).

York is my favourite UK station, the I think it's the curve and the roof. Though for most beautiful station Wemyss Bay is superb.

The museum then would be mostly steam, they do have more modern stock now though not a huge amount illustrating this century it must be said.

1. The line is now electrified, they went Peterborough-Leeds first, then up the rest of the East Coast main line in stages to York, then Newcastle and finally Edinburgh in 1991 with full accelerated electric service introduced in 1992.

Those 47s are extremely common, and desire dating from 1962 some still haul trains on the mainline today though it's charters or spot hire work generally, they don't have any normal booked passenger workings now. 512 were built and they were permitted 95mph.

2. These Class 45s are based on the older less powerful Class 40s, based in turn on a small batch of 3 prototype diesels. These used rather outdated technology making them very heavy, to lower the axle loading they had the extra leading unpowered axle, it has a bit of side place so is called a 'pony truck' after steam practice. They are heavier and slightly less powerful than the 47s but many drivers preferred them as they accelerated better. 90mph top speed.

3. Class 31, grossly underpowered to the point that when supplying HEP they could barely haul 4 or 5 cars at anything approaching rated maximum speed! They gained the nickname "pedestrians" because of this. Top speed was 80 or 90mph depending on subclass.

The white circles are headcode discs, obsolete by this point but many locos retained them on their fronts, Class 40s for example. They were used to show train class to signallers and followed steam practice with the same positions of lights as steam locos would have with oil lamps.

Posted from Android



Date: 02/26/21 01:28
Re: Oh to be in England: York 1984 Part 1
Author: Hexagon789

NMlurker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 4. And here is Class 31/1 No. 31144 going away. In
> the background an Inter-City 125 is arriving.
>
> 5. Class 45/1 No. 45108 has uncoupled from its
> train and heads for service. In this view the
> idler axles are visible. The long trucks (bogies)
> leave little room for a fuel tank where it would
> be on the typical American locomotive.
>
> 6. Another view of Class 45/1 No. 45108 with a
> proper English neighborhood in the background.

4. And those InterCity 125s are now sadly no more on this route, they were replaced by dual mode multiple units in December 2019.

5. 45/1 - passenger variant, the /1 type had HEP equipment. The fuel tank is slung under the middle and holds 1,010 US gallons (840 UK gallons).

6. I love York, though I'm not from there. I don't know if you went into the historic heart of York, but one of the narrow streets has buildings dating from as early as 1350 which form a collection of small independent shops.

Really enjoying your photos, if you've any more please do keep them coming!

Posted from Android



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/21 01:31 by Hexagon789.



Date: 02/26/21 01:30
Re: Oh to be in England: York 1984 Part 1
Author: Hexagon789

exhaustED Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Great snapshots in time before the east coast
> mainline was electrified. All 3 of those
> successful loco types were mixed traffic locos.
> The peaks were the UK's heaviest locos at about
> 135 tonnes, hence the 'pony truck/axle'. 2500hp
> Sulzer engined.
> The 47s were very numerous, 2580hp Sulzer engined
> (derated from 2750hp due to problems).
> The 31s were 1470hp, English Electric - often
> double-headed on freight. Most had a box on the
> cab roof but the one you've photographed was one
> that didn't, so they got the nickname 'skinheads'!
> The white circles were headcode marker discs (They
> allowed small lights to be either seen or
> obscured). 

The issue with the 47s was the uprating of the engine in the first place, they took the 2,500hp Sulzer engine and uprated it to 2,750hp to allow for 250 hp for HEP. Unfortunately this made the engines out of balance and so the maximum speed was dropped from 800rpm to 750rpm which reduced the power to 2,580hp. Some Freightliner locos were further derated to 2,480hp in the early 2000s to further improve reliability.

Posted from Android



Date: 02/26/21 02:09
Re: Oh to be in England: York 1984 Part 1
Author: exhaustED

Outstanding work, Hexagon789!



Date: 02/26/21 02:39
Re: Oh to be in England: York 1984 Part 1
Author: Hexagon789

exhaustED Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Outstanding work, Hexagon789!


Thanks, my UK traction knowledge is quite good (at least I think it is) - it's the dates I usually manage to get wrong by a year either side!

I joined this site to improve my knowledge of US and Canadian railroads/railways, so far it's mostly reading through old topics but I'm getting there at least!

Posted from Android



Date: 02/27/21 04:45
Re: Oh to be in England: York 1984 Part 1
Author: 86235

Hexagon789 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 4. And those InterCity 125s are now sadly no more
> on this route, they were replaced by dual mode
> multiple units

You will still see XC HSTs through York, I think they have three or four HST diagrams. Not sure for how long but they have upgraded the trailers with power doors and PRM compatible toilets, so they should be around for a few years.

My parents moved to York in 1986 so I was a frequent visitor for 20+ years. This is what replaced the HSTs in 1991, the class 91 with Mk 4 trailers and DVT.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/21 05:04 by 86235.




Date: 02/27/21 05:50
Re: Oh to be in England: York 1984 Part 1
Author: Hexagon789

86235 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hexagon789 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 4. And those InterCity 125s are now sadly no
> more
> > on this route, they were replaced by dual mode
> > multiple units
>
> You will still see XC HSTs through York, I think
> they have three or four HST diagrams. Not sure for
> how long but they have upgraded the trailers with
> power doors and PRM compatible toilets, so they
> should be around for a few years.
>
> My parents moved to York in 1986 so I was a
> frequent visitor for 20+ years. This is what
> replaced the HSTs in 1991, the class 91 with Mk 4
> trailers and DVT.

Sorry, I should've been more specific. I meant you don't see HSTs on London-Leeds/York-Newcastle-Edinburgh. XC operate up to 4 HST diagrams on certain days normally.

And the Class 91s don't run north of York since last year now and are presently stored pending re-introduction in June/July.

Posted from Android



Date: 02/27/21 06:45
Re: Oh to be in England: York 1984 Part 1
Author: 86235

Hexagon789 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And the Class 91s don't run north of York since
> last year now and are presently stored pending
> re-introduction in June/July.
>
> Posted from Android

Definitely a sign of getting old when something you regard as modern is withdrawn / stored.



Date: 02/27/21 07:57
Re: Oh to be in England: York 1984 Part 1
Author: Hexagon789

86235 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hexagon789 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > And the Class 91s don't run north of York
> since
> > last year now and are presently stored pending
> > re-introduction in June/July.
> >
> > Posted from Android
>
> Definitely a sign of getting old when something
> you regard as modern is withdrawn / stored.

I still think of them as 'modern' but they definitely don't accelerate that quickly compared to modern trains and you can't add the needed capacity with extra cars, firstly because there aren't any more cars to add but secondly because you of course add more weight and worsen the acceleration even more which isn't going to suit modern tightened schedules.

The new Azumas were specified to be able to reach 125mph one minute quicker than the 91s, in reality they are even faster, about 3 minutes 40. (A Class of with 10 Mk4s takes about 5 mins 30 seconds to attain 125mph from a standing start.)

Nevertheless, the Class 91s have there place up there with HSTs and other high-speed designs, they still hold the British locomotive speed record, the fastest London to Edinburgh time and the fastest scheduled service.



Date: 02/27/21 10:13
Re: Oh to be in England: York 1984 Part 1
Author: exhaustED

Hexagon789 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> exhaustED Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Outstanding work, Hexagon789!
>
>
> Thanks, my UK traction knowledge is quite good (at
> least I think it is) - it's the dates I usually
> manage to get wrong by a year either side!
>
> I joined this site to improve my knowledge of US
> and Canadian railroads/railways, so far it's
> mostly reading through old topics but I'm getting
> there at least!
>

I got hooked on US railroads/ways in about 1995!



Date: 02/27/21 11:00
Re: Oh to be in England: York 1984 Part 1
Author: Hexagon789

exhaustED Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hexagon789 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > exhaustED Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Outstanding work, Hexagon789!
> >
> >
> > Thanks, my UK traction knowledge is quite good
> (at
> > least I think it is) - it's the dates I usually
> > manage to get wrong by a year either side!
> >
> > I joined this site to improve my knowledge of
> US
> > and Canadian railroads/railways, so far it's
> > mostly reading through old topics but I'm
> getting
> > there at least!
> >
>
> I got hooked on US railroads/ways in about 1995!

My interest in North American railroads/railways actually started with Canada. I have Canadian relatives and my interest basically spawned from looking up railways in the area and then to the wider Canadian system.

Then I got a book on US streamliners and the rest went from there.

Posted from Android



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