Railroaders' Nostalgia > You Have a Reputation for Being Unreasonable

I read a lot here about On time Performance, and I remark a lot about Amtrak on the right day is on time. Out here in Washington, I’m with a group that is making a lot of noise about Amtrak Cascades OTP, which sometimes gets above 60 percent . . . after 800 Megabucks of hardware and a ‘guarantee’ of 88 percent on time.

During conversations, I hear a lot about what can’t be done  and very little about what can be done. At least here, on a 186 mile trip, we don’t have the problem Typhoon cited about Amtrak https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,6059009,6060734#msg-6060734. 

There is also, in my discussions about OTP a lot of talk of threatening and penalizing railroads for failure to ‘prioritize’ Amtrak, but it isn’t that simple. 

A substantial part of the problem is dispatching based on priority instead of time. That usually doesn’t work on a railroad that has a lot of traffic compared to capacity. I have watched dispatchers tie up a railroad in knots and  wind up scre . . . uh, horribly delaying an important train hours later because it had nowhere to go. I have done it myself, or actually, I let the Chief do it and didn’t stop him https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?18,4140409,4140409#msg-4140409.

There is a lot of blame for Amtrak delays put on 'autorouter,' and not unreasonably, along with the dumb stuff 'autorouter' does to freight trains. The 'autorouter' systems generally make decisions based on priority and tie themselves up in knots.

BN had the conflicting requirements of strict priorities and the priority train must be on time. Early priority trains got managers attaboys, regardless of what the early train did to the rest of the railroad. Late priority trains incurred the wrath of each next layer of management above all the way to the top. There was no winning.

Some recent discussion about how to run trains on time brought to mind the incident above that left the two highest priority opposite direction trains 115 miles apart with no siding between them. That recently brought to mind the time that I unreasonably applied the opposite solution to a couple of priority trains.

BN had a daily fleet of trains headed east from Seattle. They were various levels of hot, high priority trains. Since BN ‘schedules’ were a bunch of arbitrary times that looked like Gabby Hayes shot them from guns, there were absurdities that made it impossible to run all trains on time simultaneously, such as scheduling eastbound trains 30 minutes apart east from Seattle when the Cascade Tunnel forced one hour headway. It had been that way for many years. When I hired out, I got the freight schedules (after the Chief asked me why I would want to see them), did a stringline diagram of the trains between Wenatchee and Spokane, and found that if they were all on time, there would be seven trains meeting and passing simultaneously at Malaga, which wasn’t long enough to fit most trains, let alone more than one.

The impossibility of all trains being on time simultaneously led to the practice of Train du Jour, in which the train that drew the most and loudest complaints from important customers became the next day's hottest of the hottest trains, requiring all other traffic to get out of the way regardless of the effect. Get out of the way was determined by the 'Plenty of Green' handling procedure, in which the Train du Jour was required to have at least five control points in advance lined up (40 miles or more of empty railroad in front of it). That would lead to the Train du Jour being early and everything else being late, leading to a new Train du Jour the next day. It was entertaining to watch but hell to participate in.

At the tail end of the evening fleet were the two hottest trains. No 14 was a Tacoma-Northtown intermodal that didn’t look important because of the work it did, but was important because of what happened in Spokane. No 14 had the Northtown, Denver, Texas, Lincoln, and Omaha traffic. It connected with two high priority trains at Spokane. Because of train placement restrictions, No 14 could have a dozen blocks representing four destinations. The fully blocked train was almost mine run because of the train placement restrictions. Banging 14 out, getting the Northtowns from Portland and delivering the south and east cars to the trains from Portland and getting the whole mess out on time was a race every day.

No 4 was all Chicago out of South Seattle. It was considered the toppest highest priority hottest of the hot, one of those Red Hot Smokin’ Awesome Z Trains before the era of Z.

No 14’s traffic from South Seattle was transferred up to an industry lead called the Mud Track, just south of where the baseball stadium is now. No 14 would stop on the Northward main, blocking three crossings, to pick up the Mud Track in the right place in the train. It was not a head end pickup and could take some time. 

No 14 was due to leave Seattle ahead of No 4 and arrive in Wenatchee and Spokane ahead of No 4. A truly amazing situation, No 14’s schedule was an hour ahead of No 4’s schedule. It was actually possible for both to be on time simultaneously (no, it wasn’t planned; it was a fortuitous accident).

So, one night, a superhero terminal trainmaster managed to orchestrate No 4 getting out of South Seattle early . . . a lot early. As a matter of strict priority, No 4 ran around the almost ready to blast off No 14 between Argo and South Portal. No 14 followed along in proper pecking order.

Then, I came to work as 3d trick Asst. Chief.

After reading the reading, my normal practice was to go see what the railroad was really doing. I always kept a trainsheet so I could keep track of the real railroad and plan the future one. https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?18,4532119,4532129#4532129

There was No 4 out of Lowell (just east of Everett) and No 14 trailing along. It didn’t take long to see what that meant. No 4 would be into Spokane over an hour early and No 14 would be over an hour late. Spokane would be switching No 14 when they were supposed to be switching the other fleet connections. No 4 would be early (Attaboy to the hero Terminal Trainmaster) and everything else would be late out of Spokane (incurring wrath to the folks who had nothing to do with it). 

I told the trick man to dive No 4 at Gold Bar for No 14. He smiled and said ‘They ain’ gonna like that.'

No 14 made Wenatchee and Spokane on time. No 4 got out of Gold Bar on No 14’s block, had to wait at Scenic about 15 minutes for the tunnel, and made Wenatchee and Spokane on time.

That was merely one little event in a night full of fixing dumb stuff and planning, but I was sure that it would be, let’s say . . . mmmm . . . noticed.

Well, yeah, it was. After the morning conference call and just before quitting time for me, the Chief cornered me and started yelling about delaying No 4 and how stupid that was and I should know better than delay a priority train. When a break came in the rant, I told him No 4 was not delayed. That set him off as expected. There was more ranting about stupidity and knowing better and lying on tip of it. No 4 was delayed at Gold Bar for 20 minutes.

Nope, he was at Gold Bar for No 14, but that wasn’t delay.

More rant.

When the rant slowed from boil to simmer, I asked if No 4 arrived in Wenatchee on time. 

Yes, but that’s not the point. Your stupid decision delayed No 4.

If No 4 was on time, how could it be delayed?

Because you held him to let No 14 by.

Which train is due at Wenatchee first?

No 14, but that’s beside the point.

Was No 14 on time?

Yes, but that doesn’t matter. You delayed No 4.

Was No 4 on time?

Yes, but you delayed him. You need to pay attention to your priorities. (This was long after the No 4 and No 43 115 miles apart with no sidings incident - they don’t learn.)

If No 4 was on time, he wasn’t delayed. If he was delayed, he’d be late, right?

I remained dispassionate and the Chief’s rage was intensifying.

Finally, he yelled for the entire office to hear ‘You have a reputation for being unreasonable. Don’t do that again.’ after which he stormed off and I went home.

Hours later, the officials in Spokane had no idea that their (#2 end) was saved because I was unreasonable. That was fine with me. My satisfaction was leaving a good railroad, not attaboys.

TAW





 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/25 10:19 by TAW.

This is one whale of a story.

Just wait until AI starts dispatching trains... and running them, replacing the humans.

Kudos to you, “TAW”!!! In my time I saw and/or heard many such RR upper crust types perform in the very same manner. I guess it just goes with the territory…

Posted from iPhone

How did your stringline compare to the one from "Service Design" hanging in the Supt's office ?????


 

Englewood Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How did your stringline compare to the one from
> "Service Design" hanging in the Supt's office
> ?????
>

Someday, I need to get into the years of doing what became the service design department. We actually strung timetables for the entire BN system. Management didn't understand them no matter how hard we tried. The Superintendent in Seattle looked at a diagram of Seattle-Portland (all double track except a mile just south of Tacoma) and asked if all those meets would work like that. To think that I was a trian dispatcher working for that guy.

Five years later, when I was assigned to the TSS cutover tour and all we did was forgotten, I went to Havre, and there was a big stringline diagram on the wall. There was every train with the times at Bainvbille, Havre, and Whitefish connected with straight lines - on 400 miles of mostlly single track railroad. The Superintendent proudly showed that they had kept on stringlineing the plan to show that it works.

TAW 

TAW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Someday, I need to get into the years of doing
> what became the service design department. We
> actually strung timetables for the entire BN
> system. Management didn't understand them no
> matter how hard we tried. The Superintendent in
> Seattle looked at a diagram of Seattle-Portland
> (all double track except a mile just south of
> Tacoma) and asked if all those meets would work
> like that. To think that I was a trian dispatcher
> working for that guy.

That's pretty bad. I found that was one thing that the not very analytically inclined operating management at N&W could understand, even though they were not routinely produced. One time when Bluefield WV was particularly screwed up, I was part of a team which was sent there with the admonition that you are not coming home until Bluefield gets straighten out. Being the low man on the totem pole, I decided to stringline chart the actual train operations in the area by hand for a few days. I like to think that was what got us home without an extended stay..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/25 09:29 by ts1457.

One can only imagine how sophisticated the stringline process is with AI and PSR.
No doubt self adjusting second to second based on real time data.
Probably why the big roads are doing away with chiefs and desk men.
The railroad must truly run itself.
A money making machine !

Interesting article on string lines:  https://homesignalblog.wordpress.com/2022/11/26/stringlines/

Englewood Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One can only imagine how sophisticated the
> stringline process is with AI and PSR.
> No doubt self adjusting second to second based on
> real time data.
> Probably why the big roads are doing away with
> chiefs and desk men.
> The railroad must truly run itself.
> A money making machine !

Ohhh yeah. The PSR cult has really done a job on the industry, in a few years I’ll share some insights about that.

Regards

Posted from iPhone

Drknow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ohhh yeah. The PSR cult has really done a job on
> the industry, in a few years I’ll share some
> insights about that.

I'll be looking forward to those.

ts1457 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Drknow Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ohhh yeah. The PSR cult has really done a job
> on
> > the industry, in a few years I’ll share some
> > insights about that.
>
> I'll be looking forward to those.

 Roger that!

TAW

TAW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ts1457 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> > Drknow Wrote:
> > > Ohhh yeah. The PSR cult has really done a job on
> > > the industry, in a few years I’ll share some
> > > insights about that.
> >
> > I'll be looking forward to those.
>
>  Roger that!
>
> TAW

And me too.

Good story, TAW. Nothing like a pigheaded supervisor stuck on a point they don't want to concede - no matter what - to make your day. Happens elsewhere too, I assure you.

As for, shall we say, "not appreciating" a stringlline, it's almost beyond belief. That's in essence the production plan for the "transportation factory". In manufacturing, we'd ignore or misunderstand such a plan at great peril. Like inducing barely controlled chaos, Quickly, very quickly. About what seems to have happened for you.

Always enjoy - and even more, appreciate - your stories and their lessons. Even now in retirement, and doing some work on the side in the IT industry I was part of for many years, there are lessons to be learned from them. Much obliged, as always.

MC

Great story ! TAW - " ya did good !! ".

Drknow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Ohhh yeah. The PSR cult has really done a job on the industry, in a few years I’ll share some
> insights about that.
>

The evidence suggests -- at least to me -- "Precision Scheduled Railroading" is neither "precision" nor "scheduled."  If it was, every Amtrak passenger train on PSR-centric roads would be on time, to the second.

I'd be interested in your insights, along with a bunch of us here. 

KurtBWNews Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Drknow Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Ohhh yeah. The PSR cult has really done a job on
> the industry, in a few years I’ll share some
> > insights about that.
> >
>
> The evidence suggests -- at least to me --
> "Precision Scheduled Railroading" is neither
> "precision" nor "scheduled."  If it was, every
> Amtrak passenger train on PSR-centric roads would
> be on time, to the second.
>
> I'd be interested in your insights, along with a
> bunch of us here. 

It doesn't take much more than reading trainorders for questions of traffic, with the answers being they usually run a ___ around ____ most days, etc. along with passenger trains getting hos . . . uh, severely delayed day after day.

TAW

Are stringline diagrams still used (or displayed) in modern RR transportation planning software?

Great post!
Oliver Barrett

ShoreLineRoute Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are stringline diagrams still used (or displayed)
> in modern RR transportation planning software?
>
> Great post!
> Oliver Barrett

Not quite the answer about planning software but it was once in dispatching software.

When Digicon was in business their dispatching software had a page or screen that would display a stringline
based on position of the trains on that district at that time.  It displayed the OS times plus the projected OS times.
On single track that would show the projected meeting points which would be, of course, at places trains could
actually meet or pass.  This was 15+ years ago when Digicon was still in business.  
 

ShoreLineRoute Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are stringline diagrams still used (or displayed)
> in modern RR transportation planning software?
>

In planning software, universally. In dispatching - virtually never. The planning function was served by the trainsheet and generally not replaced when trainsheets went away. The diagram is used virtually everywhere else in the world. Where there are still paper trainsheets, they are diagrams, not tabular like in North America.

Pictures: Dispatchers office in Speiz Switzerland and trainsheet in the Saldanha ZA dispatchers office.

TAW 

---

---

On certain RR’s in these United States dispatchers are subjected to scorn and ridicule if they even have so much as a Post it Note on the desk.
This is Modern North American Railroading and computers and AI… beep boop beep beep.

Regards

Posted from iPhone

Very interesting to see that image of the dispatcher's workspace at Spiez, Switzerland - thanks. That seems to me to be about an ideal arrangement - at least for a truly scheduled railroad. Track diagram showing train positions above, with the stringline schedule below. Would I be right that the screens correlate top and bottom? - that the track segment shown on the upper screen is the same segment represented by the stringline below? If so, a fine arrangement for the dispatcher.

Is that the SBB (Swiss Federal Railways) or BLS (Bern-Lotschberg-Simplon Railway) dispatcher? Looking at the track diagram (can't make out the station names), guessing that it's SBB. Both serve Spiez with important lines. Spent time there just last fall, although not in the dispatcher's office of course. And stayed in Thun just down the road, with some time at the busy SBB station there, with a lake steamer dock for service on Lake Thun directly adjacent right across the street. Imagine. Oh those Swiss...

MC