Railroaders' Nostalgia > BN Hoe Handle Question

Back in the day when fun was still allowed on the railroad when BN crews where counting down to a joint you would hear the term "easy hoe handle" used. Have always been curious as to the origin of this phrase, any old BN hands know the story behind it.
Michael T Kerner
Collinsville,IL

Posted from Android

I don't know the origin, but we had a Middle Division Conductor at Emporia, named Cal Renfro that would use that term. I never heard anyone else use it. I worked with him sometimes on the Newton-Wellington-Newton local. He would give you car lengths down to a half, then it was "hoe handle" and sometimes if he still had the mike keyed, he would let you hear the pin fall. I always knew from working with him, I still had four or five feet until I heard, or felt the joint make. So at least one Santa Fe guy used "Hoe Handle" too.

Back in the 80,s when the cotton belt men were coming up from Arkansaw and Texas a lot of them used this first time I herd it was J.W. Lewellen a Conductor from Commerce Tx. The 80,s is when a lot of traffic was diveret to the old Rock Island from the SSW.

I've never heard a Hoe Handle before...but I enjoy the "local flavor" in railroading...

I worked with a few guys in Anderson, Indiana that used some interesting farm-based nomenclature:
"cow and a calf", for "car and a half," also counting down with a Cow, Half-a Cow, Calf, that'll do.
"Back up for a hitch on the wagon" was something another guy would say.


Also in the odd things department, The top switch going from the control siding at anderson to the drill track/switching lead has "33 1/3" written in paint marker on it. When an old head nicknamed "Smoke" had that switch lined, and we were going to put the engines away in the engine track, he'd say "Back up 33 1/3" and that was all he would say until I got behind the derail with the engine. It's the little things you have to learn along the way that make this place interesting!

Edits because I kant spel.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/15 11:17 by DrLoco.

As an engineer on the BN in Lincoln from 1979 to 1983 I never heard it and I'm glad I didn't. How long is that hoe handle? A twelve inch hand hoe? Two foot? Five foot rake length? Free lancing local flavor is the stuff that can get you killed. I'll give an example. I was holding the 818 local (Lincoln-Havlock-Waverly-Greenwood-Ashland-Ashland gravel pits-Louisville-reverse stations to Lincoln) as a fireman/promoted engineer. Engineer Harold Shepard and I would usually split the work. The job started at 3:30 P.M. so most of it was in darkness. We were putting a fairly long cut of cars into one of the Ashland yard tracks. It was a shove move with the front of the engine against the cars. The crew was using lanterns. No radios. The field man was on the point of the move and the head brakie was on the stairs just below my front window. The field man gave me a couple cars to go sign, followed by an easy and a stop. He then gave me a vertical line with his lantern. That is the sign for forward. I started to release the independent and take a throttle one notch. At the same time I saw the head man start to go between the engine and the cars. I immediately shut the throttle and fully applied the independent. The head man jumped back and then proceeded to make eye contact with me. We then went about cutting the engine off under his instructions. The cutoff completed, he came up into the cab extremely irritated and asked me why I had started to move forward as he was going toward the angle cock. I told him I got a forward signal from the field man. Here's the deal. The ground crew used that vertical sign at the end of a shove to denote the move complete and to cutoff. They knew their "local flavor" but never had communicated it to me. The appropriate sign for a person going between equipment is a horizontal slash with a lantern. The last sign from the field man should have been the stop sign. Then the head man should have taken over with the proper signs to do his job.

Kennard Britton
Bedford, TX

The first time I heard "hoe handle" over the radio was in the early '90's when some short-time borrow outs came to the ATSF L.A. Division from Texas. I thought of a hoe handle to be about 4 to 5 feet long and it was never an issue. Of course, when you're a hoe handle away from a joint it really doesn't matter if it's a long handle or a short handle.

I worked with a MoPac conductor out of Memphis in the 70's and 80's who used the term "hoe handle." I always thought it was pretty clever!

I hadn't heard of the term "Hoe Handle" until coming to Temple, Tx in Dec. '86. It was used by most all of the Santa Fe trainmen around here for an approximate 5 foot distance.

Mark



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/15 21:34 by KskidinTx.

KskidinTx Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I hadn't heard of the term "Hoe Handle" until
> coming to Temple, Tx in Dec. '86. It was used by
> most all of the Santa Fe trainmen around here for
> an approximate 5 foot distance.
>
> Mark


That's where I learned it, working out of Galveston in the early 80's....

Around here, the only use of "hoe handle" was,
"that guy is as dumb as a hoe handle!" Frequently
used by engineers speaking of rooky brakemen.

Been thinking about kennbrit's narrative about misinterpreting a "cut off" signal for a "go ahead" signal. I've seen that cut off signal used in several different areas on the Santa Fe. The main difference between the two signals is that the lantern should be raised slowly, then held for a few seconds over ones head before being lowered slowly. It seems the head brakeman understood the signal that was given. Even if kennbrit misunderstood it for a go ahead signal no physical harm would have occurred if the head brakeman had insured kennbrit saw his "going in between" signal (if he gave one) before actually doing it. From the information provided I would think the head brakeman would be the one to fault. Glad no one was injured.

Mark

KskidinTx Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Been thinking about kennbrit's narrative about
> misinterpreting a "cut off" signal for a "go
> ahead" signal. I've seen that cut off signal used
> in several different areas on the Santa Fe. The
> main difference between the two signals is that
> the lantern should be raised slowly, then held for
> a few seconds over ones head before being lowered
> slowly. It seems the head brakeman understood the
> signal that was given. Even if kennbrit
> misunderstood it for a go ahead signal no physical
> harm would have occurred if the head brakeman had
> insured kennbrit saw his "going in between" signal
> (if he gave one) before actually doing it. From
> the information provided I would think the head
> brakeman would be the one to fault. Glad no one
> was injured.
>
> Mark


To be a "ahead/forward" sign, the movement would be repeated several times in an up and down motion. For a cut off sign the lantern simply needs to be brought straight up and HELD in that position for a few moments so there would be no mistake that it was a "ahead/forward sign.


V

SLOCONDR

This one always caused confusion for me, and I usually had to verify which direction to move. "Ok, now go ahead and back up"

We use the term Big Red around here. Most of us know it. 2 cars, one big red that will do. A Big Red is a chip hopper.

Back in the 80's while working one of the "Plant Jobs" at GEMCO Yard in Van Nuys, one of the old head conductors used to say "bale of hay", when we were getting close to a joint. That would indicate to me we had about three feet to a coupling...

Some local terms that I like are "half of it" or "haffa" for a half-carlength. Our hoe-handle would be "set-a-truckers".

I first ran across it in Baytown, TX where everyone used it, ill throw it out there every once and a while.

Posted from Android

ddg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This one always caused confusion for me, and I
> usually had to verify which direction to move.
> "Ok, now go ahead and back up"

The very best oxymoron in railroading. . . . . .LOL

Larry Dodgion
Wilsonville, OR

truxtrax Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ddg Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > This one always caused confusion for me, and I
> > usually had to verify which direction to move.
> > "Ok, now go ahead and back up"
>
> The very best oxymoron in railroading. . . . .
> .LOL


LOL... that was always a good one, and always used in sincerity.


V

SLOCONDR

How about "Come ahead on back"?