Railroaders' Nostalgia > Hiring out on Amtrak?

Hello,
I recently entered my senior year of high school. The world went from telling me I had plenty of time to figure out what I wanted to do to telling me times up, I need to have it figured out. One job that always seemed like something I would like is hiring out as an Amtrak engineer. Preferably on the old SP Coastline running the starlights/ surfliners up to SLO. I know that with freight railroads you tend to have to hire out as a conductor and work up to engineer, but how would one go about hiring out as an engineer on Amtrak? Is it as simple as applying or does Amtrak mostly hire engineers already working for other railroads? Also, are there any particular college degrees that are good for working in the industry? I was thinking industrial engineering but I wasn't sure what's best.
Thanks,
Travus

P.s.

I wasn't sure where to post this, but I figured the page all the older heads went to was the best place to. Sorry if you feel it doesn't belong since it's not a nostalgia post.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/16 11:16 by suvart.

I was invited to interview with Amtrak, in Los Angeles, about a decade ago. There were six of us at the interview, two UP engineers, two BNSF engineers, an Amtrak conductor and and Amtrak car attendand. They told us that they had openings for two engineers and, in the end, they hired one of the UP guys and one of the BNSF guys. I guess they didn't want to hire and train their own, from within. Also, for what it's worth, the UP guy quit and returned to the UP.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/16 11:47 by crackerjackhoghead.

Unless things have changed recently, if you have no engineer experience, you cannot hire out directly as an engineer trainee. You hire out as an assistant conductor, and you are eligable for engine service after you have passed the conductors exam, but you want to make your intentions known with the local road foreman of engines long before that. If you impress him, he'll give you a heads-up when they're hiring and help you get on the list of prospective engineers. Then you have to deal again with Amtrak's nightmare, Human Resources. The selection process is essentially a muck created by HR, so having the road foreman on your side is essential. If you have prior experience with another railroad and possess a valid engineer's license, a good work record, no DUI's, arrests, etc., you probably will go to the head of the line, but with HR you never know for sure.

EO

I interviewed for an AC position before I went to work as an Agent. The entire interview was about conflict resolution, either with co-workers or passengers. Nothing about traditional Railroading.
My Agent career only lasted for 1 1/2 years due to budget cuts because Amtraks budget is a year at a time.
Steve

Amtrak can and will hire engineers off the street. It is more common in the northeast, however.

Amtraks preference is to hire certified engineers trained by Class 1 railroads as they will generally have mainline and heavy freight experience which many smaller railroads will lack.

In both cases, you will attend Amtraks training facility and learn their way of doing things. The classroom/simulator time is a little shorter than a person off the street for obvious reasons.

Also in both cases, you will not have any conductor seniority to fall back on if your run is reduced/cut/falling traffic patterns.

The best advice is to learn to crawl before walking. Hire out as an AC on Amtrak and after some time, apply for engine service.

AC and Con positions are heavy customer service positions and you will be tested and interviewed as such.

Posted from iPhone

Right now is not a good time to hire on with Amtk or any railroad for that matter. Amtk is definitely slowing down on hiring for T&E.

It would be best to hire on as an AC (They are not hiring conductors, you hire as an AC and promote to cond shortly after training) then promote to engineer after you get experience railroading. It is a lot to learn and trying to jump in and go straight to the seat is setting yourself up for failure in my opinion. Plus if things go sideways atleast you'll have both engineer and conductors seniority.

Don't bother wasting your money on college or choo choo school, its a joke and doesnt get you anything. Plus why would you waste your time on college when you want to work on the railroad in train service....no college required so why bury youself in college debt? The time spent in college is worth more working on the railroad, gaining seniority.
I did half a semester of community college then dropped out, and I make just as much money as the guy/gal sitting on the other side of the locomotive cab....no matter how many degrees or titles they have.

Good luck, hope to see you on the rails some day.

This should have been posted in the passenger forum.
Posted from Android

Thanks for the advice/insight everyone, it certainly helped. I had figured getting a degree was a good idea just since it seems almost every job today wants a person who went to college.

Travus

Posted from iPhone

Best to try and get on without wasting money. If you want to go passenger I'd say maybe try to get some customer service jobs while still in high school to get some experience and build a resume.

Do yourself a favor and do not tell anyone at the rr you like trains.

Feel free to PM if you need any help or have any questions.

suvart Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for the advice/insight everyone, it
> certainly helped. I had figured getting a degree
> was a good idea just since it seems almost every
> job today wants a person who went to college.
>
> Travus
>
> Posted from iPhone

Posted from Android

Amtrak has occasionally hired engineer trainees off the street, but it frequently ends badly. They tend to wash out because they're faced with learning too much at once, in an evironment that is totally foreign to them. Much better to hire on as an assistant conductor, get used to that version of railroading, and try to enter engine service later. Right now, Oakland is desperatly short of trainmen, and is hiring as much as the coporate masters back east will allow. Also, many people have hired on with the Mechanical Dept., Station Services, or On-board Service (lounge car attendant, car attendant, etc.) and been able to transfer to assistant conductor later. A friend of mine started as a waiter for a short while, became a trainman for about 3-4 years, and has been an engineer now for 25. Of course, one never knows what the future may hold...

boomer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Best to try and get on without wasting money. If
> you want to go passenger I'd say maybe try to get
> some customer service jobs while still in high
> school to get some experience and build a resume.
>
> Do yourself a favor and do not tell anyone at the
> rr you like trains.
>
> Feel free to PM if you need any help or have any
> questions.
>
> suvart Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thanks for the advice/insight everyone, it
> > certainly helped. I had figured getting a
> degree
> > was a good idea just since it seems almost
> every
> > job today wants a person who went to college.
> >
> > Travus
> >
> > Posted from iPhone
>
> Posted from Android  Well yes and no Boomers Advice.  You don't have to tell them your a railfan,but do show that you have a interest in railroads and the job your applying for. It is also helpfull if you do your homework on your employer and that you know something about them and the job your applying for.  The fact your a railfan will come out soon enough by the way you perform your job.  When I hired out in 72, I made no secret of the fact I was a railfan, and at that time; it helped me get hired.  Why there is such a distain for railfans wanting to go to work for the railroad and having to hide that fact;is beyond me.  I know it wasn't always like that. 

mopacrr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
 Why there is such
> a distain for railfans wanting to go to work for
> the railroad and having to hide that fact;is
> beyond me.  I know it wasn't always like that. 

It's been my experience, over the past thirty years that, while some of them end up being excellent railroaders, the vast majority of them are too busy "playing trains" and foaming, to be able to pay attention to the job. Many of them even flunk out in the classroom  or quit, once they mark up and realize that it's not a game, and the carriers know that.

crackerjackhoghead Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mopacrr Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>  Why there is such
> > a distain for railfans wanting to go to work
> for
> > the railroad and having to hide that fact;is
> > beyond me.  I know it wasn't always like
> that. 
>
> It's been my experience, over the past thirty
> years that, while some of them end up being
> excellent railroaders, the vast majority of them
> are too busy "playing trains" and foaming, to be
> able to pay attention to the job. Many of them
> even flunk out in the classroom  or quit, once
> they mark up and realize that it's not a game, and
> the carriers know that. If the carriers know that railfans aren't always good employees ; then why do carriers continue to hire near-do wells with little or no interest in the job.  Even if the person is not a railfan; the person has to have some level interest in the job and some of what they have hired in the last ten or so years are just there for the paycheck. To say vast majority of fans are there to "play trains" I think is unfair, but I would that would be true of any occupation where there is a large following.   Perhaps what the carriers should do is interview people who at show an interest in the job and the company they intend  to work for.   

I agree and disagree.

It comes down to the person.

The carrier wants someone that will be safe, and effecient. They want someone that will come out and play day and night, heat and snow.

They do not want someone checking out an old B&O lettered car rolling by on a train while they need to be protecting a shove

They do not want someone to look outside and say - well the weather is no good so I'm going to lay off sick.

Now, that can encompass anyone who works, but there are more possible distractions from a railfan vs a person who likes trains.

I've been on the railroad for sometime, and I enjoy my work. I also like history and traveling and I can mend them all. There are guys I work with who hate the railroad, others who live it, those who detest railfans, and a few who visit historical railroads.

You get to know who is who.

But make no mistake, many are in it for the money or retirement. The actual brotherhood and nostalgia of what made work "exciting" disappeared in the late 80's early 90's.

Personally I love the stories that retired railroaders post here, and how "fun" it was or had the potentional to be. Those guys had certain things easier but many others harder than I have it. Management could be worked with and those in it that came up from the ranks.

I'm glad that I was able to get to know John Edwards, Larry Freeden and others back home. Those guys enjoyed their jobs while partaking in railroad related adventures - something we don't see anymore.

One has to remember that it is a job, career and more importantly a lifestyle - one that a spouse or loved one will also have live.

If you have the desire to railroad, give it a shot. Just be prepared for long days, nights, 2am phone call in the rain, missing important life events, not getting paid properly - railroad and personal politics.

Also be prepared for things you may never witness anywhere, hanging onto a rail car making a shove with a picture perfect sunrise, crisp air, waving to the hot chicks at the college next to the tracks, making life long friends and affording things that others will enjoy.

For the OP, if you really want a leg up, hire on with a freight railroad (prefer a Class 1 if possible) and then hire with Amtrak (but keep applying to Amtrak).

You may land it on the first try, or make take several years, if it all.

Good luck

Posted from iPhone

mopacrr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >  Why there is such
> > > a distain for railfans wanting to go to work
> > for
> > > the railroad and having to hide that fact;is
> > > beyond me. 

I'm with Jeff on this one. Most "out of the closet" fans I've encountered on the rails are liabilities. Many of them seem to romanticize what they think the job is about, then when the reality of it hits them, their shortcomings bubble to the surface. That's not to say that there aren't MANY competent railroaders who are also fans (there are), and that there aren't any incompetent railroaders who AREN'T fans (plenty of those too). But the majority of the openly "I'm a railfan" applicants seem to make terrible railroaders in my experience. Those who prioritize the job and the responsibilities ahead of the thrill and interest in the hardware are usually good rails. Those who get easily distracted by their surroundings because they are obsessed with it are destined to fail.

Yeah, don't know if I'd say 'vast majority' but a significant number.  Perhaps because a good portion of train enthusiasts have an OCD aspect to their interest? The last thing Amtrak needs is an easily distracted engineer as the only guy in the cab.  Loss of situation awareness can be deadly.

If you are just graduating high school, there's no hurry.  Start at the bottom, take the time to really learn each job, and gradually work your way up as you develop the skills and life wisdom that will make you a better engineer.  Some of that is just best learned through experience, especially at such a young age.  If you tell the interviewer and bosses that is your plan, and you mean it, it can potentially give you a leg up as they may take you more seriously.  Prove good judgment and responsibility through actions over time. 

Also, if you want to party, best to wait a few years and get that out of the way before hiring in transportation.  BTW, military service is almost always an advantage when trying to hire on a railroad.

And as for working the Daylight, maybe in twenty or thirty years. Remember EVERYTHING on the railroad revolves around your seniority in the operating dept. You will either be on the extra board or on the least desired job, that's just the way it is. when MY time for Amtrak in Los Angeles happened there was the chance of being forced assigned to Oakland so I declined. As for the railfan comments, I seemed to be the only obvious one in the terminal I worked and got along fine with everyone?
​JB

If you've got the brains, ability, and opportunity to get an engineering degree then I'd strongly suggest going that route.  That would open up a world of doors in many areas across the railroad.

I went to work for BNSF when I was 19. In maintenance of way just to get my foot in the door. Worked 3 months, got furloughed (laid off). Got extremely lucky and got to craft transfer into train service while I was still 19. At that time you could craft transfer with less than a year seniority if you were furloughed. At that time there were still people that refered to it as the "this way up" program and my craft transfer paperwork was still BN letterhead lol. Anyway I kept my mouth shut and my ears and eyes open and got my engineers card when I was 23. I kept my railfan and historical interests to myself and aside from my job. I have never been a photog, never had time for it unfortunately. Now I have been there 15 years and the guys know I know more about our industry than anyone else and I have became a go to guy when someone wants to know "hey what was the name of that siding they tore out at such and such milepost?" Lol. I get a little kidding about my award winning GN HO scale caboose but it's all in fun. Out senior engineer in the terminal gave me his step dad and step grandpas old time books and track profiles from the OC&E recently because he knows I am into that sort of thing and will take care of it. But it had taken a lot of time and being a professional first and earning others respect. To me it's still an enjoyable job but it comes with sacrificed. I had to miss my oldest daughters birthday last weekend for example. But at the end of this week I will be off for several days and enjoying a little mini vacay with my 3 kids and the railroad has provided me the means for that. I make more money and have better benefits than a high percentage of people in my age group. So if you want it, go for it! But the moral of my little story is to be a proffessional first and every thing else will fall into place. I would suggest the same as the other guys have. Get on with Amtrak in any capacity or a class one and work your way on up from there.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/16 13:58 by GN599.

Three of the younger members in the La Mesa Model RR Club have gone to work for Amtrak (along with some older guys, including one who has a 1960s date as a fireman).  Of the younger guys, one worked as an engineer at BNSF for almost ten years before getting hired by Amtrak.  Two others went through a community college railroad progam in Sacramento and then got jobs with shortlines before getting hired by Amtrak.  They both moved out of the San Diego area because the cost of living was lower and they could hold better jobs elsewhere. 

We also have had several other members and participants in our operating sessions who have gone to work for Amtrak and other carriers, including one who is now an Amtrak Road Foreman of Engines.  If this is the Travus I think it is, ask me about more details in person -- I don't want to reveal more personal information on a public forum.  There are some Amtrak people in the club you should talk to about this.

D F W

 

A little late to this thread, but...........

I grew up in a town that was an Amtrak crew base.  From the time I was in grade school, I could be found hanging out around the Amtrak station as the afternoon train got ready to depart.  When Amtrak hired their own T&E crews, I was a frequent sight riding around on a red ten-speed and got to know many of the regular crews.

Over a decade later, I was a college grad and working at an area radio station when Amtrak was hiring AC's.  A few of the guys I had known for years told me "you'd better put in for it!"

This is where the politics of it all enters the equation.  The local road foreman at the time had a very adversarial relationship with most of the crews, and knew I got on well with them.  Needless to say, my name got trashed during the hiring process.  Fast forward a year, and that particular road foreman had moved on.  His replacement didn't care for him, and to this day I think that fact played a part in my getting hired a year later.  Call it a sort of one finger salute; hiring someone his predecessor didn't want.

Obviously I was a known commodity when I was hired; pretending I wasn't a buff would be like Elton John trying to go back in the closet.... sorry, but that ship's dun sailed.

There was a perception among some that I would wash out or quit after a brief stint.  Buffs are out here to play trains, after all.  I was aware going in that I would have to work harder than most to prove myself, what with the "buff" tag hanging on me.

The key, or at least what worked for me, was paying attention; listening to what the guys I was working with told me.  In time they knew I was there to do the job.  I was there to learn the trade, and was always open to suggestions and wanted to know what I could do better.

Being a railfan and working as a railroader are by no means mutually exclusive, but one has to be able to compartmentalize.  The railfanning has to be left at the door when you walk in the crew room at the beginning of the day.  And no matter how much information you have as a fan, no matter how much you know about locomotive models and car types and route histories, that stuff won't get you any points.  If you walk in the door on day one and act like a fountain of information, forget about it.  You need to have the attitude that no matter what you know, it doesn't count for anything when it comes to actually doing a job.

Come in wanting to learn and listen to what you are told, and you can earn the respect of the veterans.

Good luck!

Mary McPherson
Dongola, IL
Diverging Clear Productions