Eastern Railroad Discussion > CSX FLorida Question

Would anyone have any info on freight traffic on the CSX subdivision from Auburndale South to Miami through Sebring, FL? Any input on this line would be really appreciated.

There are others who can give more precise timing, but here's what I know.

On any given day between Auburndale and Miami you'll have a Q452 NB overnight. Leaves Hialeah Midnight-ish.
You'll have Q453 SB in the afternoon. Plus one or two rock trains, K950 and the like.
There are also four Amtraks: 97/98, 91/92. 98 in the late morning the rest in the afternoon.
There are weekday freight locals, too. An Auburndale turn plus one for Sebring in the evening. Not sure about the south end.
Sporadically there will be a Q250/251 Autorack train to West Palm.

Road channel ia 66: 161.100
Dispatcher is 94: 161.520.

Good luck.

Danny Harmon
Tampa

On January 2, 2011, look for the 61-car Blue Unit Circus Train, en route that day from Orlando to Miami, Fla. That's at least one other train you would see, even with it being an "extra" move. It would have some sort of CSXT P900-series I.D. for such a move.

Thanks Danny.. I trying to set a " routine route" doing Tampa-Plant City-Lakeland in the AM then cutting down to Sebring by 11:30 to get lunch and the 4 Amtraks in the PM. So far have not come across any freight traffic down that way. Not sure if my timing is off or if they just try keep the freight and pass traffic separated. Appreciate the feedback on the Circus Train too. Thanks RBX.

I think the reason you're not seeing much freight traffic on the CSX line to Miami is that it doesn't have much freight traffic. From what I've read, the daily manifest pair, that occasional autorack train, and the rock trains are about it. All the Miami intermodal traffic rides the FEC.

toledopatch Wrote:

> All the Miami intermodal traffic rides the FEC.

Which prompts a question in my mind. Does CSX hand off boxes to FEC for delivery to South Florida, or do they simply not find it a market worth serving at all? If the former, that strikes me as odd - can't think off the top of my head of any other company short-hauling itself in a corridor where it has a parallel, and functional, route of its own.

yorknl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> toledopatch Wrote:
>
> > All the Miami intermodal traffic rides the FEC.
>
> Which prompts a question in my mind. Does CSX
> hand off boxes to FEC for delivery to South
> Florida, or do they simply not find it a market
> worth serving at all? If the former, that strikes
> me as odd - can't think off the top of my head of
> any other company short-hauling itself in a
> corridor where it has a parallel, and functional,
> route of its own.

CSX delivers at least one train per day of intermodal to the FEC at Jax.

yorknl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> toledopatch Wrote:
>
> > All the Miami intermodal traffic rides the FEC.
>
> Which prompts a question in my mind. Does CSX
> hand off boxes to FEC for delivery to South
> Florida, or do they simply not find it a market
> worth serving at all? If the former, that strikes
> me as odd - can't think off the top of my head of
> any other company short-hauling itself in a
> corridor where it has a parallel, and functional,
> route of its own.

Have you heard that old expression, If you can't beat them, join them.

Wow. I had no idea there was that little in the way of business for CSX on that line. Is this part of what they wanted to sell for HSR a few years ago? One would think the FEC could easily accommodate the additional manifest train (or the traffic from it) on its route.

SOO6617 Wrote:

> Have you heard that old expression, If you can't
> beat them, join them.

If it works, more power to 'em. Can certainly see how it may be more profitable to hand the last leg to FEC if Miami isn't a huge market and you want to avoid building and operating an intermodal terminal.

Fascinating though that a network (CSX) touching New York, Chicago, Philly, Ohio, St. Louis, Michigan, and so on can only muster one train of containers and/or trailers each day for a market with several million consumers. I pass no judgement; it just seems strange. Presumably the lack of northbound traffic has something to do with the economics of it.

When I worked as a consultant (before joining the USDOT four years ago) I had Florida DOT as a client, specifically the South Florida Rail Corridor management office. CSX traffic has actually been growing for the last 20 years, from around eight MGT annually to more than 12 MGT (million gross tons) today. There are about five rock trains a week, plus the daily pair of manifests already mentioned, plus about a half dozen five day per week locals based in Hialeah, Ft. Lauderdale, and West Palm Beach. There's actually more local freight on CSX than on FEC. However, FEC gets all the intermodal business. CSX actually sold off its former intermodal terminal in the Miami area a decade or so ago.

As a condition of the SCL merger, FEC was given a 25-year option to buy the former Seaboard from Sebring to Miami. That option expired in the mid 1980s, and CSX immediately began replacing the bolted rail (112 RE stuff dating to WW II) with 132 lb. CWR, and re-timbering and surfacing the whole railroad. Then, in typical CSX fashion, a few years later they turned around and sold the line to Florida from Miami north to a point called Dyer (just northwest of West Palm Beach). Of course it's now 100% double track from Mangonia Park to Miami. Still, given that CSX doesn't own the line, I suppose at some point they could decide to spin off the segment from Auburndale to Dyer to a short line, or something.

I know that csx usually has two engines parked in okachobee on the weekends and pick up the cars from the grain mill on monday plus they still run coal to the plant in Indiantown usually late in the evening around 5 or six it comes through chobee from my observations amtrak usually in the day time freight at night plus there is talk of reoprning rail service to the port of Miami.

shoretower Wrote:

> As a condition of the SCL merger, FEC was given a
> 25-year option to buy the former Seaboard from
> Sebring to Miami.

This is an interesting thread to me - sorry for all the questions!

But one more. What was the proposed point of FEC buying the Miami/Sebring line? I don't see how that would have benefited FEC *or* somehow enhanced competition, and the fact that the option expired unused suggests that FEC felt roughly the same way about it. Seems like getting them into Tampa (which was a two-roads-to-one market with the SCL merger) would have been more relevant.

When I was in Florida for a family visit 9 years back, Q452/453 were monster sized trains ofcourse that was before the economy tanked and the building boon in South Florida went by the wayside. Seeing some recent videos of it on YouTube and what I saw of it 2 years ago those trains are just a fraction of the size they once were.

In the days of yore, 452/453 were regularly 8000 feet +. Loaded with centerbeam flats, chemical and boxcar traffic. Now that developers have stopped building into the Everglades, things have slacked off.
52/53 can still be sizable trains, but are just as likely to be 2500 feet.

Things are going to change dramatically on the Auburndale Sub when the Intermodal Logistics Center is built at Winter Haven. This will add several trains daily to the area. I don't know how that will affect traffic south of Winter Haven.

Danny Harmon
Tampa


JimmyJam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When I was in Florida for a family visit 9 years
> back, Q452/453 were monster sized trains ofcourse
> that was before the economy tanked and the
> building boon in South Florida went by the
> wayside. Seeing some recent videos of it on
> YouTube and what I saw of it 2 years ago those
> trains are just a fraction of the size they once
> were.

I think part of the problem is that many of the Distribution centers for all of South Florida are scattered and primarily north of the Miami. FEC has IM terminals at Hialeah, Fort Lauderdale, Ft. Pierce, and serves the NS terminal at Titusville. It would cost CSX a lot to duplicate that infrastructure.