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Eastern Railroad Discussion > AC/6000 to CW44-6 - It's done with software


Date: 08/02/02 20:11
AC/6000 to CW44-6 - It's done with software
Author: anvilhead

By changing the software these monsters drop from 6000hp to 4400hp.

And we thought they were getting new prime movers..........



Date: 08/02/02 20:18
Re: AC/6000 to CW44-6 - It's done with software
Author: Chessie_8563

Are we sure about this....



Date: 08/02/02 21:10
ge engine models
Author: TriangleRoute

just checked the operator manuals for both the AC6000 cw, and the AC4400 cw. The ac6000 has a GE model 7HDL 16 engine, while the AC4400 has a 7FDL 16 engine. I dont know what he difference between the HDL, and FDL engines are, but they do have a different number. I'll do a little checking tomorrow if I have time, to see if there are any glaring differences.
TR
Savannah GA



Date: 08/02/02 23:10
Re: ge engine models
Author: Paul

AC6000 uses a completley differant engine. The 7HDL was designed in Germany. Twin turbos much larger then a FDL engine.
Paul
Redlands, Ca



Date: 08/02/02 23:24
Re: ge engine models
Author: kevind

Discussed many times before.

Most have had new software, but 2 have gotten new FDL engines including new sheet metal around a single exhaust stack. The FDL has 1 stack. The HDL has 2.

They were adhesion testing 2 re-engined ones in a true AC6044 configuration (with FDL). If they work out, expect the others to get new engines.

I expect the C44-6 label is CSX's way of identifying C44 from a 6000 hp unit (the dash-6 signifying 6(000) hp originally). CSX had the 6 digit model identification restriction with their computer system (hence the SD70AC instead of SD70MAC), and I'm sure AC6044CW (what the builders sticker says) doesn't work with their computers either.



Date: 08/03/02 00:40
Re: ge engine models
Author: hoggerdoug

A lot of engine blocks can give more or less horsepower without much change to the original engine block. Horsepower rating can be changed by changing the firing order or changing the crankshaft configuration, remember the old "hot rods" of the 60's and 70's, quite often same engine could be boosted up just by changing the motor configuration. And don't forget, locomotive horsepower rating can also be changed electrically with changes to the main generator or alternator.
Doug



Date: 08/03/02 06:04
Re: ge engine models
Author: anvilhead

hoggerdoug wrote:

> A lot of engine blocks can give more or less horsepower
> without much change to the original engine block. Horsepower
> rating can be changed by changing the firing order or changing
> the crankshaft configuration, remember the old "hot rods" of
> the 60's and 70's, quite often same engine could be boosted up
> just by changing the motor configuration. And don't forget,
> locomotive horsepower rating can also be changed electrically
> with changes to the main generator or alternator.
> Doug
>
> [%sig%]


Consider this:

The CSX 684 has this notation on the back of the FRA cab card: "CW44-6 Horsepower reduced to 4500 gross w/ software 7/26/02"

On 8/02 this unit showed absolutely no sign of being disturbed or worked on (months and months of grime and dirt, no cleaned areas to indicate being worked on), the exhaust stack was still dual, and there was no out-of-service time noted on the blue cab card. The only new look was a CW44-6 sticker below the window.

I thing hoggerdoug is correct. It is done electronically.



Date: 08/03/02 06:19
References
Author: msheets

Here are a few links that I think will help put the issue to rest.

From GE:
Union Pacific AC4400/6000: https://www.getransportation.com/general/apps/specsheets/UP_AC4400_AC6000/UP_AC4400_AC6000.htm
Union Pacific AC6000 CW: https://www.getransportation.com/general/apps/specsheets/UP_AC6000/UP_AC6000.htm

You may want to visit GE's Locomotive Info page (from which the above were linked)--I thinks it's pretty neat: https://www.getransportation.com/general/locomotives/specsheets.asp

Also, UP lists its C44/60AC's as being in the 4,390 HP: <http://www.uprr.com/aboutup/locorost2002.shtml#Freight&gt; (OK, apparently this doesn't like the # sign: http://www.uprr.com/aboutup/locorost2002.shtml. Click the "Freight Locomotives" link on this page.)

Regarding the first post, I do remember hearing about some 6000 HP helper locomotives being configured with some kind of "switch" to drop them down to 4400 HP when pushing, with the idea being that 6000 HP could be too much power from the rear and cause some cars in the train to "buckle" off the track in certain situations; however, I have not yet found any additional info stating that fact.

Enjoy



Date: 08/03/02 06:28
One More Reference
Author: msheets

This is for the CSX road number series 603-699 and 5000-5016:
https://www.getransportation.com/general/apps/specsheets/CSX_AC6000_RN604/CSX_AC6000_RN604.htm



Date: 08/03/02 09:30
Re: One More Reference
Author: robby

I've posted this before but total engine replacements for these units has been ongoing for some time. In this case, the 633 is getting a OEM prime mover after a major breakdown in 2001. Only a few years old and already needing a complete overhaul. CSX bean counters must be in tears.

Huntington Locomotive Shops, Huntington, WV
Robby





Date: 08/03/02 09:43
Re: References
Author: BCM

Those references do not mean that much as they were the specs for the units AS DELIVERED a few years ago and most of the CSX C60ACs have gone back to Erie for modifications at least a few times each.

I would believe the engine FRA blue cards a lot more than those dated GE advertising sheets.

Also the problem that you referenced to with certain units being used in helper service was an issue with the traction effort on the regular 4400hp GE AC4400s. UP had experienced trouble while using their AC4400s in helper service and asked GE to do a software modification to decrease the traction effort when AC4400 units were used in DPU mode. GE made those modification and delivered the next UP AC4400s as the 5700 series AC4400CTEs ("CTE" being for Controlled Tractive Effort).

Reports around here are that other than CSX #699 which was remotored as a test unit for comparison, the other C60ACs that have been converted to "CW44-6"s were done so with software adjustments. This will allow GE and CSX to see if re-motoring the units will be advantageous to de-rating them through software...

- BCM



Date: 08/03/02 09:56
Re: One More Reference
Author: BCM

robby wrote:
> Only a few years old and already needing a complete
> overhaul. CSX bean counters must be in tears.

Actually it's the GE bean counters in tears as the units have been under warantee the entire time and all of the replacements (parts and work as well as replacement hp units for use while they were out of service) have reportedly been on GE's tab...

The CSX bean counters might even be smiling as the warantee work will go on for as long as the units have problems and the repairs and maintenance will be at GE's expense and not CSX's...

I can hear them now "Wow, those C60s that we have already depreciated 50% in value on the books are getting new software or engines courtesy of GE - what nice guys! We might just be able to keep those units for 15 years instead of the 12 we planned"...

- BCM



Date: 08/03/02 18:00
BCM's post
Author: anvilhead

This reinforces my original post - Software changes are being tried first to de-rate them to 4400hp.

There is no way the 684 and 5010 that I had yesterday were gutted and totally re-engined.

Interesting topic, no?



Date: 08/03/02 19:45
Re: BCM's post
Author: Chessie_8563

Now that I think of it, wasnt 699 one of the 2 units in the minor wreck on the Erie test track a few weeks back

(also 699 is on Q137 right now)



Date: 08/03/02 22:40
699 may have a FDL engine
Author: 251F

In a picture posted by n8oay on July 31, 02:

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?f=2&amp;i=86574&amp;t=86559

Look closely at the exhaust stack, it is a single stack from a single turbocharger on a FDL engine, not the larger double exhaust stack from 2 turbochargers found on the HDL engine.

It would seem that at least one, 699, is being derated not so much by software but by a different diesel engine.

Any more pictures around of these "derated" AC60CWs? A check of the exhaust stack should tell if they are software derated or if the diesel engine has been replaced.

Daniel



Date: 08/03/02 23:10
Re: 699 may have a FDL engine
Author: NSDash9

The 699 is the one and only unit that has had its 6000 horsepower HDL engine completely replaced in favor of the 4400 horsepower FDL engine.

CRT



Date: 08/04/02 04:02
Re: 699 may have a FDL engine
Author: n01jd1

The 699 HAS had its prime mover replaced with an FDL-16. However I spoke to an engineer who ran it recently (after the prime mover was replaced) and he said that the engine has major problems. The locomotive would not load and the computer kept crashing. It would seem that this experiment has failed but only time will tell.



Date: 08/04/02 05:37
Re: 699 may have a FDL engine
Author: xnj

699 arrived in Cumberland yesterday on Q343 and remains there....sounds like it's gonna get a little attention.



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