Eastern Railroad Discussion > fracking etc.

Living in the Finger Lakes Region we have a lot of
issues with energy extraction and storage.

The Crestwood Energy Partners want to use several used
salt caverns on the old international Salt Mine property
in the Town of Reading. That property is 64 acres+-.

NYSEG the local utility was storing natural gas there in
several old wells and the crestwood folks want to store
butane and propane in the old wells and have tank car
loading and truck loading facilities and brine storage
ponds to manage the extraction and pumping gas products
in the old wells.

More than a handfull of folks have been arrested for
trespassing by chaining themselves to the main access gate
and one gentleman has refused to pay the fines and has been
a guest of the Schuyler County Jail receiving three hots
and a cot numerous times as he has been protesting since
the beginning of the project when NYSEG began working
on the property when it began storing liquified gas
underground.

The thing is we have many many many "vertical fracked wells"
in many counties Seneca, Cayuga, Schuyler, Tioga and Chemung counties
with zero problems and they are still pushing out gas.

IF they drilled the wells and simply fracked the vertical bore
holes at the Marcellus gas depth they would be pumping lots of gas
and would continue to do so with ease.

Where were railroads mentioned in you post?

Bob Wilcox
Charlottesville, VA
My Flickr Shots

He did say that they "have tank car and truck loading facilities". I guess that's the railroad connection of the thread.

bobwilcox Wrote:
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> Where were railroads mentioned in you post?

Posted from iPhone

'Vertically Frac'd Wells' ? Do you mean the original well type with the casing vertical in the well vs the horizontal wells being drilled now?
Either way all fractures created during the operation are 'vertical'. I don't think it is possible to have a horizontal fracture in the zone. Hundreds of gas storage wells in the country. That is the first however that I've heard of that would have rail service. Very interesting.

As a NYDEC certified well driller


Vertically fracked wells consist of

A vertically drilled gas or oil well in New York State consists
of steel casing that is cemented in place.

The well is drilled to the Marcellus or Utica Shale Zone of natural gas


The well has been fracked with explosives originally to increase its
ability to release the gas or oil.

The fracked area consists of "The portion of the well that was drilled in
the gassy zone or "Thickness" of shale rock in the Marcellus or Utica shale's".

The fractures created by the explosives are horizontal and radial within the
area of the fractured zone of gas bearing rock.

What these people are neglecting to tell YOU is "this"

AFTER the well bore is drilled The "Horizontal Directional Drilling Method is used to create the
spokes of the wheel that exit from the drill pad at the desired angle of space separation allowing
the well driller to I.E. drill 10 holes 36 degrees apart from one drill pad location for a mile in
distance plus or minus.

NOW when horizontally drilled well is fracked one must understand that the well is pressurized with
fracking fluid behind the plugging mechanism to to break the rock. furthermore this methodology is not new
it was developed for breaking rock in an HDD bore hole when either breaking old pipe to replace it
with new pipe or to increase the size of the HDD bore hole to allow the drill bit and drill string
to pass through the rock zone when drilling to reach the end point and exit and then allow the HDD
rig to pull casing or poly pipe back through the bore hole with the drilling mud in place holding
the bore hole open while doing this and frack the horizontal bore in several locations along the
radial spoke of the bore hole.


Saying this:

They have no and I mean no control over the geology and do not let them convince
you other wise. Poor pipe grouting and cementing jobs are a bonanza for gas
"Exfiltration" at pipe joints and bad welds in casing.

"They" cannot control the geology and "once the rock is broken in the horizontal drilled bore"

The rock is broken in many places over many feet in the hole AND the rock will break up and fall
into the the horizontal bore hole and the fluid will want to back out of the hole when a high
pressure zone is fractured, read and understand the words "Well Head Blow Out With Poison Gasses".
its happened quite often.


HDD work in gas and oil wells save money but the effects damage to the surrounding rock layers and their geology cannot be determined UNLESS core drilling is done after the fact: "and that does not happen"

SO if one wished(as is done now) a central drill pad can be built and the well bottomed at 5-7000 feet and ten horizontal spokes drilled from the central drill pad and in the process "have" 11-13 miles of drilled hole to collect gas and oil.

The law is such that even of a property owned who borders a gas drilling site the gas driller will pay the property owner for the smaller portion of the gas that is being drawn from his or her properties bed rock as the gas will flow from their bed rock to the fracked well holes.



An HDD bore was done was done recently at Taughannock State Park on Cayuga Lake to install a new high voltage power
cable under Taughannock Creek which passes through the park land and empties into Cayuga Lake.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/14 11:10 by leonz.

bobwilcox Wrote:
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> Where were railroads mentioned in you post?


Let's not get too persnickety about the railroad connection. We all know that fracturing and railroads go hand in hand, and that many shortlines in that area are growing with it.

NYC6001 Wrote:
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> bobwilcox Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Where were railroads mentioned in you post?
>
>
> Let's not get too persnickety about the railroad
> connection. We all know that fracturing and
> railroads go hand in hand, and that many
> shortlines in that area are growing with it.


Ironically, given the ban, several of the NY side railroads are doing very well with the frac business.

The Owego & Harford, NS, etc as well as the NY owned Lehigh Railway, and G&W's back office.