Eastern Railroad Discussion > Control stand confusion? Maybe this will help.

Every once in a while a post will appear here erroneously talking about the dual control stands on Southern Railway locomotives. While NS merger partner N&W certainly used dual control stands in their locomotives, Southern never did. Instead, Southern opted for what they called the "bi-directional" control stand. Though the name might sound fancy, a "bi-directional" control stand is nothing more than the standard control stand placed in a different orientation inside the cab. While this eased "backward" operation, it still was a little uncomfortable when running with other than the "F" (front) end of the loco leading. To add to the confusion, Southern ran engines set up to run long hood forward with the short hood leading, and ran locos set up with the short hood front (GP7, GP9, GP30, GP35, SD24, SD35 for example) with the long hood leading. With the arrival of the GP38 and SD40 models, the control stand was moved to the right side of the cab with the long hood leading. This made it a lot better for the engineer to see mast mounted block signals on the right hand side of the track. When "long end front" locos ran short hood leading, putting him on the "wrong" side, the short hood was not nearly as much of a visibility block. And contrary to popular opinion, Southern did not run long hood forward for grade crossing collision protection (although that certainly was a side benefit in many cases). The high short hood was Southern's way of saying to the labor unions that the engine did not have a "real" front end, thus avoiding having to turn power sets in terminals to get a low hood leading. Hopefully the attached photos will help illustrate how the Southern "bi-direction" control stand was mounted in the cab. I am also including some photos of an N&W dual control stand loco.

Photo 1 shows a Southern "bi-directional" control stand, looking out the short hood end ("F" end) of GP30 #2561. Notice it is more "centered" in the cab, so that when the engineer runs it long hood forward the controls are more to his side than behind him. Still a bit uncomfortable but a heck of a lot better than having to operate the engine with control stand in the usual position which would put everything behind him.

Photo 2 shows the conventional placement of a control stand, looking on the short hood end of N&W GP30 #522.

Photo 3 shows a side view of the Southern control stand placement.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/17 14:59 by Rathole.

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Photo 4 shows the engineer's view of an N&W GP30 looking at the control stand for the long hood front operation. The small window on that side of the GP30 (caused by the blower bulge) didn't give the engineer much of a view!

Photo 5 shows how the two control stands were arranged in the cab of an N&W GP30. As you can see, having two control stands took up a lot of space in the cab.

And finally, photo 6 shows the view of the control stand on an ex Southern long end front GE U23B.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/17 14:42 by Rathole.

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Very helpful. Thanks!

Yes, Thanks. Been in cabs of the standard control stand variety, but always wondered what or better yet "how" things were set up in these units. This shows clearly the answers to my questions. Thanks for sharing. Ben

Back in the early 70's, the FFT Ford Fast Train would have N&W units run through Pueblo. On occasion, the would run long hood forward,which some engineers objected too. The one thing I remember N&W units had a red light alerter mounted on the control stand and a spring on the side that the engineer or head brakeman had to hit when the red light started flashing. It never happened to me, but I was told that if the spring wasn't hit in time; it would initiate service brake application.

Yep - and those dual control engines could be a real pain to get set up. I'm sure it was second nature to the N&W guys though. For those not familiar with it, look on the control stand photos of the N&W unit and you can see the enclosure for the red light bulb. Also, on the control stand to the left of the reverser you can see the reset spring sticking out.


mopacrr Wrote:
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> Back in the early 70's, the FFT Ford Fast Train
> would have N&W units run through Pueblo. On
> occasion, the would run long hood forward,which
> some engineers objected too. The one thing I
> remember N&W units had a red light alerter mounted
> on the control stand and a spring on the side that
> the engineer or head brakeman had to hit when the
> red light started flashing. It never happened to
> me, but I was told that if the spring wasn't hit
> in time; it would initiate service brake
> application.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/17 18:08 by Rathole.

I was inside a dual control equipped ex NW High nose GP38AC IIRC the number was 4144. Looked pretty cramped in there. This was many years ago.

Michael Fair
Royal Oak, MI

Those reset springs were called "rat tails" where I worked on the SOU in 1987-88.

I had a cab ride in N&W GP9 #776 with dual control stands. Also had a cab ride in Indiana & Ohio #51 ex BN #1579 nee CB&Q #223 with dual controls. Cabs in both of these units were very cramped.
ALLEN

It was the run-through service with Conrail in Pennsylvania that finally dragged NS into the 20th century. Prior to that, engineers had to put up with piano-stool seats (no backs or armrests)horrible sanitation (toilet)facilities, and other plantation-era insults to humanity. The Conrail guys refused to run them, made them put their own units in the lead, and the state of PA forced them to install air conditioning and chemical toilets. As the "northern" (read civilized) locos traveled throughout the network, the southern guys quickly caught on and forced the changes system-wide through their unions. The "Nazis of Norfolk" finally met their match!

Your "plantation era" and "civilized" references are unwarranted and unnecessary. Have you got something against us who live in the south?


PRR1361 Wrote:
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> It was the run-through service with Conrail in
> Pennsylvania that finally dragged NS into the 20th
> century. Prior to that, engineers had to put up
> with piano-stool seats (no backs or
> armrests)horrible sanitation (toilet)facilities,
> and other plantation-era insults to humanity. The
> Conrail guys refused to run them, made them put
> their own units in the lead, and the state of PA
> forced them to install air conditioning and
> chemical toilets. As the "northern" (read
> civilized) locos traveled throughout the network,
> the southern guys quickly caught on and forced the
> changes system-wide through their unions. The
> "Nazis of Norfolk" finally met their match!