Eastern Railroad Discussion > NS "TOP21" to launch over July 4 holiday

TOP21 is the campaign name for Norfolk Southern's drive toward industry leadership in 2021 with Precision Scheduled Railroading.  Here's the NS press release on the effort.

People here have mentioned new trains, new destinations, new alphanumeric identifiers, etc

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/norfolk-southern-prepares-to-roll-out-top21-precision-scheduled-railroading-operating-plan-300861653.html

Let the single tracking began. Less trains mean less track means Less maintanace Means supposed beter operating ratio= more money to shareholders, etc,etc,etc,etc.

SantaFeRuss

Not sure about single tracking. They say they want capacity for growth. I do not think CSXT has single tracked any lines so far. I thought they would have by now.

Uhhh...wrong!  Line sales bring those results.  You actually need people and money to pull out double track.  Ain't happening!  Line spinoffs and locomotive sales will bring the dividends to shareholders.  


SantaFeRuss Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let the single tracking began. Less trains mean
> less track means Less maintanace Means supposed
> beter operating ratio= more money to shareholders,
> etc,etc,etc,etc.
>
> SantaFeRuss

CSX's predecessors already did it to the A line years ago and it still is a bottleneck.  Just like when they run 200+ car trains and the sidings are only good for maybe 100 cars.
At least on NS's Piedmont line there are sections of double track and single track.  But the double track sections are several miles long with usually a double x over or two in the middle of the double sections so things can still move.
Of course then you move all of the dispatchers to downtown Atlanta and try to run the whole system with someone looking at dots on a screen not knowing where they actually are or how many crossings they are blocking.
CSX didn't learn that having all your eggs in the same basket only a few miles from the Atlantic Ocean in Hurricane alley maybe isn't such a good idea.  They moved some out of there but I thought I heard they are back.
PSR!   Now NS is supposed to change all of the train numbers, so now no one is going to know who's who and where they are going, or where they came from.  It will be interesting to listen to radio conversations in the near future - "Who are you, I've never heard that number before, Are you sure you know who you are?"
Oh well it will be interesting.
Mike

Doing it on a Holiday will be interesting also.  When everyone comes back for vacation things will be in the Twilight Zone 

I don’t think this is going to be a hard cutover to some new operating system on Independence Day. I believe that a lot of the new plan is already in place and in the final stretches of being implemented.

Here in eastern Pa I have observed train schedule shifts over the last 3 months or so.

For example there has been an eastbound stack train most evenings through my town around 20:00 for the past few months, prior to that trains during that hour were exclusively manifest and the occasional garbage train.

In short I’m not too concerned and would bet a lot of the changes are already in place.

Dan

Posted from iPhone



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/19 02:55 by dschlegel.

Not only CSX. Years ago the Southern pulled up the sections you talked about on the piedmont. I think they learned from that. I would be surprised if they start pulling up double track

Gary

lapklub Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CSX's predecessors already did it to the A line
> years ago and it still is a bottleneck.  Just
> like when they run 200+ car trains and the sidings
> are only good for maybe 100 cars.
> At least on NS's Piedmont line there are sections
> of double track and single track.  But the double
> track sections are several miles long with usually
> a double x over or two in the middle of the double
> sections so things can still move.
> Of course then you move all of the dispatchers to
> downtown Atlanta and try to run the whole system
> with someone looking at dots on a screen not
> knowing where they actually are or how many
> crossings they are blocking.
> CSX didn't learn that having all your eggs in the
> same basket only a few miles from the Atlantic
> Ocean in Hurricane alley maybe isn't such a good
> idea.  They moved some out of there but I thought
> I heard they are back.
> PSR!   Now NS is supposed to change all of the
> train numbers, so now no one is going to know
> who's who and where they are going, or where they
> came from.  It will be interesting to listen to
> radio conversations in the near future - "Who are
> you, I've never heard that number before, Are you
> sure you know who you are?"
> Oh well it will be interesting.
> Mike
>
> Doing it on a Holiday will be interesting also. 
> When everyone comes back for vacation things will
> be in the Twilight Zone 

Posted from iPhone

Pulling up double track is cheap. Replacing to regain capacity is incredibly expensive.
Go

Gonut1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pulling up double track is cheap. Replacing to
> regain capacity is incredibly expensive.
> Go

Especially if the right of way was leased out for natural gas, fiber optic, etc conduits.

Posted from Android

Southern's Alexandria-Atlanta and ACL's Richmond-Jacksonville lines were converted from 2 track directional running to track-and-a-half CTC. Southern finished their conversion first. CSX didn't do Petersburg-Rocky Mount until the early 1990s. 2 track directional running had its issues too. In theory the conversion to track-and-a-hald CTC is capacity-neutral if the segments of second track left behind are long enough and not spaced too far apart. Most people would say that CSX didn't do it right Petersburg-Rocky Mount. In most places NS has plenty of capacity Alexandria-Atlanta; the exception was Charlotte-Greensboro where NCDOT paid for reinstallation of all the second track under CTC. 

In any event, no one imagined the length of PSR trains when these conversions happened. 
 

Logical alpha-numeric symbols aren't happening due to "legacy" computer systems that can't handle it. There is a plan to change symbols but still sticking with a 3 digit system. As far as I know that plan is on hold for now. Some aspects on TOP21 have indeed been implemented.

Posted from Android

I'm hoping they go to a system where it's possible to tell trains apart; since there is so much poor enunciation. Too many letter suffixes sound the same.  And what's up with Eb. 6E4, but Wb. 65E? 

mp109 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm hoping they go to a system where it's possible
> to tell trains apart; since there is so much poor
> enunciation. Too many letter suffixes sound the
> same.  And what's up with Eb. 6E4, but Wb. 65E? 

As I understand it the difference in the symbol 64E/6E4 is concerning what train needs a inspection enroute and which one doesnt.

Posted from Android

These are two separate train symbols.  The symbol doesn't indicate whether an inspection is necessary.

Eng.Shadetree

I like the NS train symbol system

I predict "TOP21" will soon turn into "FLOP21"

ShortlinesUSA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Uhhh...wrong!  Line sales bring those results. 
> You actually need people and money to pull out
> double track.  Ain't happening!  Line spinoffs
> and locomotive sales will bring the dividends to
> shareholders.  
>
>
> SantaFeRuss Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Let the single tracking began. Less trains me
> > less track means Less maintenance Means supposed
> > bet er operating ratio= more money to
> shareholders,
> > etc,etc,etc,etc.
> >
> > SantaFeRuss


ShortlinesUSA we shall see.
Even if the class ones sell to regional/short lines how many of those regional /shortling railroads retain the double track?? Not much. Certainly ShortLineUSA, you would know that. Class one or short line.....Out go the douuble  track for lesser amount of  trains, lesser revenue, then the bean counters of the class one say this line ain't worth keeping, then sell the line to ShortLine/Regional.(usualy allready single tracked) They might actually make said line work, 

SantaFeRuss

lapklub Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CSX's predecessors already did it to the A line
> years ago and it still is a bottleneck.

B&O single/doubled across Indiana about 55 years ago. It was an instant disaster, so bad that the project was stopped in its tracks (oooh...punny). Then the company management had to put up with it for 40 years until the memory of the B&O racetrack across Indiana was gone and putting the other track back was a bright new idea.

The CTC salesmen pocketed their commission and went home. The B&O folks who fell for it were sacked, as I understand.

The propaganda reached our B&OCT signal engineer, who told me that as soon as CTC was implemented, if the dispatchers were any good, there would never be trains stopping for meets again. We had a serious discussion of the fantasy of that concept, but the CTC salesmen's propaganda was much stronger than my facts.

TAW

TAW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
(SNIP)
>
> The propaganda reached our B&OCT signal engineer,
> who told me that as soon as CTC was implemented,
> if the dispatchers were any good, there would
> never be trains stopping for meets again. We had a
> serious discussion of the fantasy of that concept,
> but the CTC salesmen's propaganda was much
> stronger than my facts.
>
> TAW

That was also the story line on the New York Central, when AE Perlman ripped out much of the four track main on the Water Level Route.

Didn't work there, either.

(But, reducing the  extortionate taxes on railroad property in NY may have been an unspoken objective.)

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TAW Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> (SNIP)
> >
> > The propaganda reached our B&OCT signal
> engineer,
> > who told me that as soon as CTC was
> implemented,
> > if the dispatchers were any good, there would
> > never be trains stopping for meets again. We had
> a
> > serious discussion of the fantasy of that
> concept,
> > but the CTC salesmen's propaganda was much
> > stronger than my facts.
> >
> > TAW
>
> That was also the story line on the New York
> Central, when AE Perlman ripped out much of the
> four track main on the Water Level Route.
>
> Didn't work there, either.
>
> (But, reducing the  extortionate taxes on
> railroad property in NY may have been an unspoken
> objective.)

Actually having observed the "Water Level Route" for years, lately (Rochester area), it would seem that two tracks are excessive!

Posted from Android



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/07/19 07:00 by NYSWSD70M.