Eastern Railroad Discussion > US vs G&W lawsuit

Did anyone else happen to see this suit against the Genesee and Wyoming? I've skimmed through the documents twice now and still can't comprehend what it's all about, can anyone dumb it down and explain it to me please? The only thing I can gather is that they have to remove 88 locomotives from  permanent service because of something that was done incorrectly with rebuilding them. 

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1563686/download


thanks 
ernie

wmfan3798 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did anyone else happen to see this suit against
> the Genesee and Wyoming? I've skimmed through the
> documents twice now and still can't comprehend
> what it's all about, can anyone dumb it down and
> explain it to me please? The only thing I can
> gather is that they have to remove 88 locomotives
> from  permanent service because of something that
> was done incorrectly with rebuilding them. 
>
> https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/156
> 3686/download
>
>
> thanks 
> ernie

Not just remove from service, destroy/scrap them.

The locomotives listed failed to meet Tier 3 or 4 emissions requirements as dictated by the EPA. 

Covered on the Western board yesterday, under "Politics and the railroads". Follow the link to read a Railway Age article.
Of local interest, 4 York Railways/Maryland Midland locos are affected...

JETRR Wrote:
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> The locomotives listed failed to meet Tier 3 or 4
> emissions requirements as dictated by the EPA. 

I thought the point of rebuilding older locomotives was because they wouldn't have to meet the more stringent tier requirements. Wasn't there a tier 0 classification?

ernie

I have no clue. Just quoting the legal document. The government moves in mysterious ways.

One note though, the G&W is alleged not to have kept proper locomotive maintenance records. 

wmfan3798 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JETRR Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The locomotives listed failed to meet Tier 3 or
> 4
> > emissions requirements as dictated by the
> EPA. 
>
> I thought the point of rebuilding older
> locomotives was because they wouldn't have to meet
> the more stringent tier requirements. Wasn't there
> a tier 0 classification?
>
> ernie

Appears G&W made a mistake or did something wrong, but in the settlement G&W was required to get rid of a bunch of locomotives which were otherwise legal.

Motive Power for short lines and regional railroads suddenly has become a lot more expensive.

On the surface, this sounds like another disaster for our country. What are we doing yo ourselves?

Posted from Android

wmfan3798 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JETRR Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The locomotives listed failed to meet Tier 3 or
> 4
> > emissions requirements as dictated by the
> EPA. 
>
> I thought the point of rebuilding older
> locomotives was because they wouldn't have to meet
> the more stringent tier requirements. Wasn't there
> a tier 0 classification?
>
> ernie

Yeah, but you have to actually do it...

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,5617531

Out

The way I read this settlement is this way:

--G & W had sloppy paperwork
--G & W didn't do required maintenance
--G & W didn't have to have Tier 4 engines--but whatever engine they DID have, at whatever Tier rating (0, 1, 2, 3) HAD to be maintained at that model's "highest tier compliance."  They apparently failed to do that, which explains all the SD-40-3's having to be sold.  Other shortlines have them, too, but other shortlines are maintaining them, or they haven't been caught cheating.  Even if it was Tier 0, they apparently failed to maintain engines to that Tier level.  NS and UP still have old SD-40-2's running around.........BUT THEY MAINTAIN THEM.  And the paperwork is probably correct.
--G & W hoped that no one would notice
--G & W got caught, so the hammer is falling hard, even to the point that engines which are otherwise "legal" must be sold i.e. punishment

--I think what the EPA is saying is this:  "Look, all you regional shortlines and RR's--if we let you run these older locos at lower Tier ratings, due their age and model type, YOU BETTER maintain them to at least that standard.  Otherwise, you're abusing our willingness to work with you, and then things could get really, really expensive for you."  So, all the money G & W saved by NOT doing maintenance just disappeared into new locomotive purchases (they weren't expecting).

Don't mess with Big Daddy.
 



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/23 23:22 by coach.

Very well stated, Coach. Best summation I've seen of what this settlement is really all about yet.

Mike Derrick

Posted from Android

P Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On the surface, this sounds like another disaster
> for our country. What are we doing yo ourselves?
>

Chill dude.

coach Wrote:
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> --G & W hoped that no one would notice
> --G & W got caught, so the hammer is falling hard,


But, but, but...the big bad government!

Well I’m sure G&W will try to find some sort of grant money to fix this issue…. G&W is notorious for not spending any capital money unless there is some sort of free government money involved.

Posted from iPhone

Would have to agree with you Coach.  Just to add to your summation, keep in mind this is a NEGOTIATED settlement.,  What that indicates at least to me is that G&W's legal council felt that odds of the court imposing a harsher penalty, if convicted, was high enough to accept the terms of this settlement.   In other words, G&W likely feels that the EPA/DOJ has them dead to rights and this is the cheapest way out. 

Coach,
Great job of "dumbing down" what is actually going on. What I see is some responders think that G&W needs to sell engines, I read that they need to destroy 88 locos. Now that is a loco shortage if I ever saw one! This may help clean out some of the Class 1 deadlines around the country. OUCH $$$.
Gonut

Already is clearing out some deadlines-- namely, Wabtec's, in the form of around 100 ex BNSF C44-9Ws and CSX C40-8Ws, so far...

 

Just another example of how out of control the EPA really is and why it is beyond time to do away with them.

Posted from iPhone

Doug Wetherhold
Macungie, PA

I can speak with great cofidence about how G&W maintains some of their locomotives.  I was told directly to my face from the top, "we don't fix anything until it breaks".  A railroad I used to work at would have capital money set aside each year for locomotive work.  When we were purchased by G&W, it all stopped.  We gave it about 8-10 years until we believed it would bite them in the butt.  EPA took a big bite out of it.