Eastern Railroad Discussion > "Just By Chance" NYS&W Utica NY Line

We've had an easy winter here in the Utica NY area. Our snowfall to date is down considerably from what we normally receive.

Anyhow, we did have a nice little snowstorm Feb 27-28 (the ground was pretty bare beforehand). Knowing this, I hoped to catch the New York, Susquehanna & Western on Utica's Schuyler Street in the midst of newfallen snow. However, as my work schedule made me unavailable most of the morning, I figured I was out of luck as the Susquehanna usually heads southbound on Schuyler Street before 10AM.

After my work concluded, I ran a quick errand about 11:20 then took a short drive over to Schuyler Street just in case. Well, much to my surprise, there was No. 3040 leading its short train heading my way.

Included in the video: 1) street running; 2) a look at the train about 1/2 mile later as it runs alongside NYS Routes 5, 8 & 12; 3) about 90 minutes on (after the crew did some switching), in Clayville, approx 10 miles out of Utica on Paris Hill's 1.8% grade; and 4) moving at track speed, Greens Crossing, Paris, 15 miles from Utica.

The short freight was bound for Sangerfield, 23 miles from the Susquehanna's Utica yard.

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Thanks for sharing. Even with that grade, it would seem one unit would have sufficed?

Victor Baird

wabash2800 Wrote:
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> Thanks for sharing. Even with that grade, it would
> seem one unit would have sufficed?
>
> Victor Baird

In good weather (i.e., when the rails are dry), GP-40 3040 is limited to 7 loads on Paris Hill.

With conditions like this, however, the railroad likely uses the other engine as insurance against stalling on the grade.

Perhaps TO member train1275 could add more info re operating conditions on Paris Hill?

Posted from iPhone

Very nice video!
Nice sounding K3 horn!
Regards, Jim Evans

FiveChime Wrote:
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> Very nice video!
> Nice sounding K3 horn!
> Regards, Jim Evans

Not quite loud enough. The walls of my office are still standing. Barely.
/Ted

"Perhaps TO member train1275 could add more info re operating conditions on Paris Hill?"

Ok, I'll try ......

Two GP7's back in EL and DL&W days were rated at 1700 tons. With better wheel slip controls a bit more is possible with these newer Geeps, but it is still a factor of weight on drivers at nominal 25% adhesion. With snow, wet rail and mud / snowed in flanges why beat one engine when you don't have to. The rail head has years of irregularities and crossings such as Lower Main Street (at 3:17 in the video) on the long diagonal has always been a slippery spot. In EL days, with a heavy train and 5 or 6 engines, the thing to do was to keep the sand flowing and throttle back to not exceed Notch 6, otherwise you'd get wheel slip and a potential stall. The next crossing south, just out of sight, has (or maybe had) a 10 mph geometry restriction needing to be torn out and redone. I am not sure that has yet happened, and is a pain for trains ascending and descending. Another factor is the safety component of leaving a cut on the hill if you stall, and someone comes along and lets them loose. NYSW has had past issues on the lower end of the hill at Canal Branch, most recently in 2015 resulting in what could have been serious injuries or death. Another runaway happened in 1991 when cars got away and crashed into the enginehouse nearly destroying GP18 #1802. Years back in Conrail and EL days, the occupied caboose would anchor the downhill side, and provide security from miscreants wanting to cause trouble. So to be safe with the tonnage and snow, and less than good rail conditions, two engines are prudent. Could one do it ? Probably, but why risk the stall, or wheel slip that might flash a traction motor ? 

What I don't understand is why they are hauling the Oneida Warehouse mtys up the hill. I am pretty sure the TBOX 664310 and ATW 727246 seen in the beginning of the video are Oneida Warehouse loads which were spotted over on the O&W in New Hartford and the three head cars seen coming up the hill in front of the hoppers are the pulled mtys. Just not sure why they were not left on the runaround by French Road, but maybe there was a good reason.

 

Wonderful video! As to the mtys, braking force for the trip down the hill.

Out 

Excellent, thank you.

One awesome video!   Definitely VOTD quality.
Appreciate your super video posting.
ALLEN

callum_out Wrote:
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> Wonderful video! As to the mtys, braking force for
> the trip down the hill.
>
> Out 

Not really a factor with the two unts with dynamic brakes and mtys north (down the hill).

One thing that is interesting in these winter shots "up north" is that both units are natives of the south; NYSW 3040 being ex Atlanta & West Point and the CSX 2514 being ex SCL.
Maybe they are reverse snowbirds, coming north was they get old.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/23 05:55 by train1275.

Dynamics? Light load downhill on icy track? I hold that a little air on those cars will make a
lot nicer downhill trip

Out 

I'd just be happy with an early quit.