Eastern Railroad Discussion > CSX C770 and stupid people

CSX C770 derailed at least a couple of cars while shoving back into the
Bucks County Ind Park across from Woodbourne Yard on the Trenton Line.
SEPTA was running trains on Track 2 between Wood and Nesh while CSX and
SEPTA personnel dealt with the cars. Half of the train was pulled south
of the switch and sent back to Woodbourne while about 5-6 cars and one
engine were on the BCIP trackage.

Went to Fairless Jct, gave my card to some employees there and asked to
take a few pics at a distance, after which an employee who I presume
was the foreman yelled "OUT OF HERE!", which I did. Went to the public
overpass and got pictures of the cars and dirty looks from the crew on
the ground. Then went around to the JC Penney warehouse, gave them my
card and asked to take some pictures from inside their gated parking lot
and a guy in the office said OK. Got my pics, then found out that guy
was not THE GUY. When he approached me (actually honked at me from his
car), THE GUY said he was told that CSX had just chased me away from the
scene! I explained that I had asked and received permission from
someone at the office (how the hell am I supposed to know who in the office
is supposed to give out the permission slips), and I left. Then went to
the parking lot of the ind park to get some more shots when another guy
from CSX approached me in my car and said "Didn't we tell you to get
out of here!"

That was it, I almost lost it. I told the guy I wanted his card. He
asked why, and I said I wanted to know how he could tell me to get out of
a parking lot THAT IS NOT CSX PROPERTY. He backed off, and at that
point I let him have it, logically speaking. I explained everything from
why the people in BCIP did not know about the derailment in their back
yard (because CSX did not tell anyone), why he and everyone else from CSX
think they can do and say anything they want anywhere they want, why he
was concerned with me when I was nowhere near the derailment (he
blurted something about security issues and the ubiquitous "9/11" - what the
hell that has to do with CSX putting cars on the ground is
unfathomable), why there would be "privacy issues" (his words) regarding me taking
pictures of the scene that is in public view and concerns the
well-being of us all. I also told him about the article in this week's Time
Magazine about Homeland Security recruiting truckers to keep an eye on
things "suspicious"
http://www.time.com/time/archive/preview/0,10987,1101040705-658321,00.html
and asked why not enlist us railfans (who on the whole seem much more
enlightened than the gear jockeys in the article). I wish I had recorded
the tidal wave of frustration that I unleashed on this guy about the
stupidity and arrogance running rampant in our society. In the end, I
left and hopefully at least one CSX employee had something to thing about.

I have had it with morons. I am mad as hell and I am not going to take
it anymore.

John I think you did something that you felt was worth it, and let them know. I feel that some of the Railroad Police, and other employees go beyond there borders and think they can rule it all. Like when I am watching trains from a public parking lot in town here, I have been come up to a few times and ask what we are doing, and its like we cant sit in a parking lot facing the train tracks. If your on public property, just let them try and push you away, and tell them straight out where your standing, and if they bug you, just do what you did, leave. Dont want to get yourself too mad over there stupidity and ruin your personal hobby.

Telus6429
Ian
Windsor, Ontario
http://www.trainweb.org/swontariotrain/index.html
http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?name=Telus6429

Just what "CARD" are you talking about here?
gtr

"I have been come up to a few times and ask what we are doing, and its like we cant sit in a parking lot facing the train tracks"


You hit the nail right on the head there, and yes, it is 100% ridiculous. If we are going to preserve our hobby we need to stand up and fight this wave of ignorance, and try to educate that we're doing no harm. Best thing to do is never get on their property (in their way), and start from there.

I agree with CSX on this one. Its not a safe to have a foamer taking photos when a crew is rerailing cars. Alot can happen when heavy equipment is involved.

AmericanLines Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree with CSX on this one. Its not a safe to
> have a foamer taking photos when a crew is
> rerailing cars. Alot can happen when heavy
> equipment is involved.

Actually they were not rerailing cars, they were assessing the situation, basically standing around talking and measuring. Nothing was moving and no heavy equipment had arrived yet. My safety was NOT an issue, just a pretense.

Even if they were rerailing the train, who cares? He is on public property. Guilford Rail Systems accordianed (is that a word?) about 10 cars inside a small tunnel here in MA two summers ago and luckily for us (unlucky for them) there is a pedestrian bridge RIGHT outside and above the crash site. Did they try to kick people away? No, they went on their business for 3 days straight 24/7 clearing the site, the railroad police even conversed with the people happily about it. That is how it should be.

yea ive had the same expierence here in sandusky. as a railfan i was being harassed by someone inside the amtrak station cause im a railfan. she goes on and says you cant be here because of 9-11. and i told her many times im on public properity that belongs to the city. she gets pissed and calls the police on me and the cops even agreed with me. i told them im a railfan, minding my own business, not bugging anybody and letting people know when amtrak is coming in to sandusky. the cops have said aint no law against that. why you ask? i because im doing the people that get there to wait on amtrak comin in lettin them know how late or on time amtrak is. somehow or another im goin after this stupid person she ovisouly doesnt know who she fouled with, or that i took a stand against her tryin to throw me off public property. lets see how she likes being fired for it
railfan1 out

If you are on public property, on private property with someone's express permission, or on your own property adjacent to a railroad line where you have chosen to take photos, or just sit and watch trains from, nobody from any railroad has any right to try and tell you that you cannot engage in same.

The problem lies not in the need to have a secure country. The problem lies with police employees often b.s.-ing folks about what the law says concerning your rights. For example, I once fought a seatbelt ticket and won because I cited (respectfully) the actual NYS Vehicle and Traffic Law section which prescribes the use of a restraining device for every person in the car. I was wearing the lap belt all along, but the old "passive" (motorized belt) shoulder harness was broken, rendering it useless. The judge agreed with my assertion that I was in "compliance" with the law because it does not specify how many or which restraining devices you must use. Had I not chosen to object to the validity of the ticket, I am certain I would have paid a hefty fine. I did this with no lawyer involved, either.

Similarly, if you have not set foot on the railroad's property, and you are on a public bridge over, under, alongside or otherwise within eyesight of a railroad facility, no railroad policeman has any right to demand you depart. He may have a right to ask you what you are doing, and it does little more than irk me to have them ask, so tell them and be honest. Doing it politely will better your chances of not having to argue with them. But if need be, demand to know just who you are hurting, as what the law is specifically that the officer alleges you are breaking, and stand your ground, to a degree. Past a certain point, the better part of valor is to go somehwere else if they require it of you, and take it up with the officer's superiors. Get his badge number, name, license plate number, make of auto, etc. Don't play games with them, because your word against most police isn't going to hold much water, even if you are not the one telling a lie. But the bottom line has to be that we do not simply allow folks to treat us like this has become some fascist state based on the actions of Islamist nutjobs here and elsewhere. I always say, "Gee, last time I looked, it was still the American Flag flying over the Post Office".

Great job fighting the power!
9/11 is an excuse.
CSX dumps cars on the ground EVERY DAY!
If they want to save us, how about fixing the track!


oaksmodelrr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CSX C770 derailed at least a couple of cars while
> shoving back into the
> Bucks County Ind Park across from Woodbourne Yard
> on the Trenton Line.
> SEPTA was running trains on Track 2 between Wood
> and Nesh while CSX and
> SEPTA personnel dealt with the cars. Half of the
> train was pulled south
> of the switch and sent back to Woodbourne while
> about 5-6 cars and one
> engine were on the BCIP trackage.
>
> Went to Fairless Jct, gave my card to some
> employees there and asked to
> take a few pics at a distance, after which an
> employee who I presume
> was the foreman yelled "OUT OF HERE!", which I
> did. Went to the public
> overpass and got pictures of the cars and dirty
> looks from the crew on
> the ground. Then went around to the JC Penney
> warehouse, gave them my
> card and asked to take some pictures from inside
> their gated parking lot
> and a guy in the office said OK. Got my pics, then
> found out that guy
> was not THE GUY. When he approached me (actually
> honked at me from his
> car), THE GUY said he was told that CSX had just
> chased me away from the
> scene! I explained that I had asked and received
> permission from
> someone at the office (how the hell am I supposed
> to know who in the office
> is supposed to give out the permission slips), and
> I left. Then went to
> the parking lot of the ind park to get some more
> shots when another guy
> from CSX approached me in my car and said "Didn't
> we tell you to get
> out of here!"
>
> That was it, I almost lost it. I told the guy I
> wanted his card. He
> asked why, and I said I wanted to know how he
> could tell me to get out of
> a parking lot THAT IS NOT CSX PROPERTY. He backed
> off, and at that
> point I let him have it, logically speaking. I
> explained everything from
> why the people in BCIP did not know about the
> derailment in their back
> yard (because CSX did not tell anyone), why he and
> everyone else from CSX
> think they can do and say anything they want
> anywhere they want, why he
> was concerned with me when I was nowhere near the
> derailment (he
> blurted something about security issues and the
> ubiquitous "9/11" - what the
> hell that has to do with CSX putting cars on the
> ground is
> unfathomable), why there would be "privacy issues"
> (his words) regarding me taking
> pictures of the scene that is in public view and
> concerns the
> well-being of us all. I also told him about the
> article in this week's Time
> Magazine about Homeland Security recruiting
> truckers to keep an eye on
> things "suspicious"
> http://www.time.com/time/archive/preview/0,10987,1
> 101040705-658321,00.html
> and asked why not enlist us railfans (who on the
> whole seem much more
> enlightened than the gear jockeys in the article).
> I wish I had recorded
> the tidal wave of frustration that I unleashed on
> this guy about the
> stupidity and arrogance running rampant in our
> society. In the end, I
> left and hopefully at least one CSX employee had
> something to thing about.
>
> I have had it with morons. I am mad as hell and I
> am not going to take
> it anymore.
>
>

Dont trespass and fight the power.
IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO TAKE A PICTURE OF A TRAIN AND IF IT IS WE ARE ALL CRIMINALS AND THE TERRORISTS HAVE WON.
What country is this the Soviet Union???

SLR62 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I have been come up to a few times and ask what
> we are doing, and its like we cant sit in a
> parking lot facing the train tracks"
>
>
> You hit the nail right on the head there, and yes,
> it is 100% ridiculous. If we are going to preserve
> our hobby we need to stand up and fight this wave
> of ignorance, and try to educate that we're doing
> no harm. Best thing to do is never get on their
> property (in their way), and start from there.

AMEN! A willing public with let tyranny rule us!
Fight the power.


Jim Kosty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you are on public property, on private property
> with someone's express permission, or on your own
> property adjacent to a railroad line where you
> have chosen to take photos, or just sit and watch
> trains from, nobody from any railroad has any
> right to try and tell you that you cannot engage
> in same.
>
> The problem lies not in the need to have a secure
> country. The problem lies with police employees
> often b.s.-ing folks about what the law says
> concerning your rights. For example, I once
> fought a seatbelt ticket and won because I cited
> (respectfully) the actual NYS Vehicle and Traffic
> Law section which prescribes the use of a
> restraining device for every person in the car. I
> was wearing the lap belt all along, but the old
> "passive" (motorized belt) shoulder harness was
> broken, rendering it useless. The judge agreed
> with my assertion that I was in "compliance" with
> the law because it does not specify how many or
> which restraining devices you must use. Had I not
> chosen to object to the validity of the ticket, I
> am certain I would have paid a hefty fine. I did
> this with no lawyer involved, either.
>
> Similarly, if you have not set foot on the
> railroad's property, and you are on a public
> bridge over, under, alongside or otherwise within
> eyesight of a railroad facility, no railroad
> policeman has any right to demand you depart. He
> may have a right to ask you what you are doing,
> and it does little more than irk me to have them
> ask, so tell them and be honest. Doing it
> politely will better your chances of not having to
> argue with them. But if need be, demand to know
> just who you are hurting, as what the law is
> specifically that the officer alleges you are
> breaking, and stand your ground, to a degree.
> Past a certain point, the better part of valor is
> to go somehwere else if they require it of you,
> and take it up with the officer's superiors. Get
> his badge number, name, license plate number, make
> of auto, etc. Don't play games with them, because
> your word against most police isn't going to hold
> much water, even if you are not the one telling a
> lie. But the bottom line has to be that we do not
> simply allow folks to treat us like this has
> become some fascist state based on the actions of
> Islamist nutjobs here and elsewhere. I always
> say, "Gee, last time I looked, it was still the
> American Flag flying over the Post Office".