Model Railroading > Push Pull passenger.

Does any one have a push pull passenger consist. I am planing about 6 coach's with a Dummy Engine on one end and a powered engine. Does any one else do this? I'm curios as to how much weight i should put in the cars to keep them from derailing.

See the NMRA web page. They have all the information you
need on how to weigh your cars correctly.


http://www.nmra.org/

http://www.nmra.org/standards/sandrp/rp-20_1.html

Here's the actual page to save you some searching. I'd start by ensuring each car weighs the recommended amount, then double check your trackwork. You'll find that shoving any train works so much better when you eliminate any track problems. Don't rely solely on car weight.

We did a push pull with 4 Walthers Amfleet cars, with a Kato F40PH at one end an Athearn P42. We used the DCC settings to make sure the two engines ran at the same speed, and we had no troubles, even on curves and going up and down some fairly good grades.

Just make sure the engine isn't too heavy and you should have no problems with the push pull mode shoving a dummy engine around.

Thanks for the answers all. I am using Self Kadees for couplers. The Dummy on the end will be a former Powered unit that has the weights and Motor out of it. I messed up a long time ago. It will serve as a Hep Control car. I am gonna wire a decoder to it and have a train line lighting system.

The Indiana State Fair Train, currently running from Noblesville to the Fairgrounds is a push - pull consist. Currently being riden by Santafe Dan, chief conductor.

I always thought push-pull operation meant an engine at one end and a cab car at the other, pulling in one direction and pushing in the other, as shown in these two photos with the same loco. First is pulling, second is pushing.

Variations of the same theme, I guess.

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That's how Amtrak used to do it on the San Diegans. (Amfleet equipment) Any more than seven cars, and another locomotive was added for the pull up Miramar. It was really cool to see a pair of F40s elephant style cruising along the beach at 90mph!


TheCurator Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I always thought push-pull operation meant an
> engine at one end and a cab car at the other,
> pulling in one direction and pushing in the other,
> as shown in these two photos with the same loco.
> First is pulling, second is pushing.
>
> Variations of the same theme, I guess.

Push - pull operation is a power unit at each end. upkpfan

upkpfan Wrote:
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> Push - pull operation is a power unit at each end.
> upkpfan


What would you call the Cascades with a gutted F40 hauling baggage on one end and F59 on the other?

pmack Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> upkpfan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Push - pull operation is a power unit at each
> end.
> > upkpfan
>
>
> What would you call the Cascades with a gutted F40
> hauling baggage on one end and F59 on the other?


On the Cascades its a gutted F40 with a F59, P42 or P32.

Jerry Martin
Los Angeles, CA
Central Coast Railroad Festival

upkpfan Wrote:
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> Push - pull operation is a power unit at each end.
> upkpfan


Powered unit at each end is called "pull-pull". "Push-pull" does mean an engine one end, and a cab car on another. Think about the terminology....

According to the online Encyclopedia Britannica:

" * railway traction ( in locomotive (vehicle): Traction operating methods )

...An alternative, known as push-pull, has a normal locomotive at one end and, at the other, a nonpowered passenger or baggage car, known as the driving or control trailer, with a driving cab at its extremity...".

Didn't CNW originate push-pull commuter service way back when? (late 50's maybe, or early '60's?).

They used an engine (or two, for longer trains) at one end and a cab control bilevel car at the other end...so power at only one end doing the "pushing" into Chicago's CNW station in the morning, and "pulling" away to the suburbs each afternoon. Metra, who now handles that commuter service, does it the same way.

Cabbage cars and such are a more modern innovation.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/09 12:48 by Sasquatch.

Sasquatch Wrote:
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> Didn't CNW originate push-pull commuter service
> way back when? (late 50's maybe, or early '60's?).
>
>

They definitely did not come up with the concept as I believe push-pull was used in Europe (Berlin especially) back in the steam era with tank locomotives.

They may have been the first to use it in the US however.....

ChS7-321 Wrote:

> They may have been the first to use it in the US
> however.....


Yes, thank you for clarifying that...that's actually what I meant. Either them or SP, I'm guessing.

--Tom

sd80mac Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's how Amtrak used to do it on the San
> Diegans. (Amfleet equipment) Any more than seven
> cars, and another locomotive was added for the
> pull up Miramar. It was really cool to see a pair
> of F40s elephant style cruising along the beach at
> 90mph!
>
>
> TheCurator Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I always thought push-pull operation meant an
> > engine at one end and a cab car at the other,
> > pulling in one direction and pushing in the
> other,
> > as shown in these two photos with the same
> loco.
> > First is pulling, second is pushing.
> >
> > Variations of the same theme, I guess.

right now there is a trainset running with an f59phi on each end and amfleet cars in between sort of cool still miss those f40s though
D

To come back to the original question. I operate push pull. I have two sets of six Bombardier commuter cars (GO Transit livery) and they run quite well in the push mode. One has an Atlas GP40T and the other has a Walthers Trainmaster F40 pushing. I also have a set of four wooden CNW bi-level commuter cars pushed by an Athearn F unit and it too goes in the push mode without incident. This is on a club layout and the push runs can be quite long, 300 feet or longer, probably closer to pushing for 600 feet around curves and up and down grades.

Dale