Model Railroading > Walthers HO Passenger truck question

So I have had for years a CSX executive train that is made up of Walthers passenger cars. The cars were selected as "close enough" and painted in CSX's attractive passenger train scheme. I have 11 cars in the train. It is definitely a crowd pleaser during openhouses and fun to run. Sometimes....

So my dilemma is the trucks. There are always issues with the trucks. Cars derail with very little reason and the damn trucks squeak and make allot of noise. I have been over these trucks a thousand times, making sure the wheels are in gauge and the trucks are not warped(I put them on glass) If I oil the wheelsets, they stop squeaking for awhile and then return to making lots of noise.

I have replaced some of the trucks with Walthers replacements with no success. So here is the deal, I would like to replace the trucks with ones that run smoothly and do not squeak. I have 4 axle and 6 axle trucks. I do not care if they are correct. Just modern in nature. The trucks on the cars are painted black and you really can not see them anyways. Brass or plastic is fine but prefer assembled and painted black if possible. One last comment, I have 36-42" radius curves and my track is in very good condition. I am a bit of a track fanatic. Thanks Bruce

These are the 2 trucks all my cars have.

GSC 41-CNS-11 w/Disc Brakes (black)
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-1306

Pullman 106W Reinforced Wood Beam 6-Wheel Truck 1 Pair
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-1079

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Throw out the Walthers wheels and put in Inter Mountain wheels. I had the same problem with the Flexi-van cars. I had the Walthers wheels on a grade and the car went no where. I switched in IM wheels and, from the same spot, it ran away 8 feet.

Those Walthers wheels will practically stick to a wall rather than roll downhill.

Rick

Not really an option for me Rick. You have to take the Walthers passenger trucks apart to change the wheelsets and once you do that, you open up another can of worms. Thanks Bruce

rschonfelder Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Throw out the Walthers wheels and put in Inter
> Mountain wheels. I had the same problem with the
> Flexi-van cars. I had the Walthers wheels on a
> grade and the car went no where. I switched in IM
> wheels and, from the same spot, it ran away 8
> feet.
>
> Those Walthers wheels will practically stick to a
> wall rather than roll downhill.
>
> Rick

Anxiously awaiting the answer. I have had the same issues. I also agree that you open a can of worms when you remove the screws.

Agreed. Been there, done that. The other thing is, I tried to blacken the wheels with a commercial blackner--they turned green.

brfriedm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not really an option for me Rick. You have to take
> the Walthers passenger trucks apart to change the
> wheelsets and once you do that, you open up
> another can of worms. Thanks Bruce



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/13 06:34 by wabash2800.

One comment. I did check out Rapido's website and they do have the 4 axle I need. They look good and Jason is a good dude.

Anyone comment on those trucks and do they fit onto the Walthers car?

Thanks

Bruce

http://rapidotrains.com/trucks_ho.html

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Bolster height might be an issue. If the Rapido is lower, just add washers. If it's higher, you'll have to do some careful filing.

Brian Ehni

The addition of Intermountain axles would be a big step in rectifying the Walther truck problems. The truck are too ridged and do not equalize. Most are also not square. If you place the trucks on a flat surface such as a granite counter top, you will see one of the wheels will not be touching the surface. Loosening the screws and adjusting the "level" will also help.
On the bottom of the cars, I opened up the area where the screw heads ride so the truck has more room to move and flex.

KR

The noise is comming from Flashing in the trucks, Use a truck reaming tool used on plastic trucks to clean out the journals (sold by several companies including reboxx). On heavywight walthers cars we found that the wheels rub thebottom of the car. I can not rember the order number but I ordered som Shim Washers from McMaster Car (www.mcmaster.com) as they have a washer about .010 thich that works wounders

Mike Slater

Bruce use The Tool to clean out the axle recess then get some Nano oil and use some sparingly on the axle ends. It will make a big long term difference. They make three grades use the middle one for axle ends. ----- Ken

brfriedm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not really an option for me Rick. You have to take
> the Walthers passenger trucks apart to change the
> wheelsets and once you do that, you open up
> another can of worms. Thanks Bruce
>
> rschonfelder Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Throw out the Walthers wheels and put in Inter
> > Mountain wheels. I had the same problem with
> the
> > Flexi-van cars. I had the Walthers wheels on a
> > grade and the car went no where. I switched in
> IM
> > wheels and, from the same spot, it ran away 8
> > feet.
> >
> > Those Walthers wheels will practically stick to
> a
> > wall rather than roll downhill.
> >
> > Rick


Some paitience is required. But, you could possibly save the existing wheelsets since this would enable you to properly rheem and lube the journals. IM wheels are great, but do represent an additional expense of course. The first one you take apart and reassemble will challenge you, but it gets easier as you go on to the next one. All it requires is for you to remove one of the screws, then loosen the other, (on one side only) but not enough to remove. Now, one wheel set that is on the unscrewed side should drop out, take the side with the screw that is loose, that wheel can be "manipulated" by gently moving the loose sideframe up and down while the other hand holds the opposite side and axle until you can pull it out. Remember, completely remove only one screw on one side only, and only loosen the other until you have enough "give". This is important. Once repairs are made, then do this in reverse. The most frustrating part of it is when/if you remove both screws. I tried that once...never again! Anyway, what's the worse that could happen? If you absolutly can get them back together, then ask for some advice....we'll help.

It has been along time since I dissambled a Wathers truck....but just did between writing this blog with the exact same truck you are working with. I removed both wheels and put it back together is less the 3 minutes using this trick.

The 6 wheel truck is abit more difficult, but I used the same proceedure. The end brake rigging will have to be reglued, but other then this, the wheels should drop out with some gently coaxing. Get the proceedure down on the 4 wheel truck first, then try the 6 wheel type. Once you have done it a few times, it should take less the 5 minutes to remove and replace.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/13 12:41 by ATSF3751.

wabash2800 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Agreed. Been there, done that. The other thing is,
> I tried to blacken the wheels with a commercial
> blackner--they turned green.
>
> brfriedm Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Not really an option for me Rick. You have to
> take
> > the Walthers passenger trucks apart to change
> the
> > wheelsets and once you do that, you open up
> > another can of worms. Thanks Bruce

Disassemble the truck and hand paint if needed.

I use InterMountain ball bearing wheelsets in my Walthers cars. The wheels freely spin on the axle so you avoid the squeaking issue. They've also been tested to reduce rolling resistance by around 50% in passenger cars.

Plus you don't have to take the trucks apart to install them like everyone thinks. I didn't, they just snapped right in for me.

The downside is the ball bearing wheels are a bit expensive at $19.95 MSRP for 6 axles.

Lee Ryan - Rio Grande Fan
Denver, CO

Personally, I do not see what the big deal is with removing the screws with Walthers passenger trucks. Anyone who has done anything in the hobby should be able to do it - especially a person like you Bruce who has built a whole model railroad. If you have sausage fingers, well, that might be an issue.

I've changed the wheels on the passenger cars as well. As for the extra expense of changing the wheels, well all I can say is Walther's wheels are crap and you need to allow for it. I have a container full of their wheels.

I'd be interested in the Rapido option so let us know how you go. My point is if Rapido or Broadway Limited can produce good trucks/wheels then why can't Walthers? Why do we put up with moderate underframes and poor rolling trucks when others are producing better?

Rick

Thanks Rick but I think you missed my point and I understand that. Of course I can remove the screws and I have many times. My point is that through my experience of disassembling the trucks, they never operate reliably for me again. That is all.

Now with that said, this is why I prefer to replace these trucks versus repair them. I want to thank all the folks with all the great input. I will disassemble one set of trucks. I will ream the truck, make sure the trucks are reassembled on glass, Oil them, I will use Intermountain wheelsets and I will give it the old college try. I expect this process to produce a car that derails all the time but does not squeak! :)

Thanks again.

Bruce


rschonfelder Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Personally, I do not see what the big deal is with
> removing the screws with Walthers passenger
> trucks. Anyone who has done anything in the hobby
> should be able to do it - especially a person like
> you Bruce who has built a whole model railroad.
> If you have sausage fingers, well, that might be
> an issue.
>
> I've changed the wheels on the passenger cars as
> well. As for the extra expense of changing the
> wheels, well all I can say is Walther's wheels are
> crap and you need to allow for it. I have a
> container full of their wheels.
>
> I'd be interested in the Rapido option so let us
> know how you go. My point is if Rapido or
> Broadway Limited can produce good trucks/wheels
> then why can't Walthers? Why do we put up with
> moderate underframes and poor rolling trucks when
> others are producing better?
>
> Rick



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/13 13:57 by brfriedm.

brfriedm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks Rick but I think you missed my point and I
> understand that. Of course I can remove the screws
> and I have many times. My point is that through my
> experience of disassembling the trucks, they never
> operate reliably for me again. That is all.
>
> Now with that said, this is why I prefer to
> replace these trucks versus repair them. I want to
> thank all the folks with all the great input. I
> will disassemble one set of trucks. I will ream
> the truck, make sure the trucks are reassembled on
> glass, Oil them, I will use Intermountain
> wheelsets and I will give it the old college try.
> I expect this process to process a car that
> derails all the time but does not squeak! :)
>
> Thanks again.
>
> Bruce
>
>
> rschonfelder Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Personally, I do not see what the big deal is
> with
> > removing the screws with Walthers passenger
> > trucks. Anyone who has done anything in the
> hobby
> > should be able to do it - especially a person
> like
> > you Bruce who has built a whole model railroad.
>
> > If you have sausage fingers, well, that might
> be
> > an issue.
> >
> > I've changed the wheels on the passenger cars
> as
> > well. As for the extra expense of changing the
> > wheels, well all I can say is Walther's wheels
> are
> > crap and you need to allow for it. I have a
> > container full of their wheels.
> >
> > I'd be interested in the Rapido option so let
> us
> > know how you go. My point is if Rapido or
> > Broadway Limited can produce good trucks/wheels
> > then why can't Walthers? Why do we put up with
> > moderate underframes and poor rolling trucks
> when
> > others are producing better?
> >
> > Rick


I have successfully used Walthers trucks for years without major issue after tweaking them abit. The jury is still out on Rapido, at least for me since I have only tried one car. I don't own any BLI cars. My Branchline trucks are OK. I personally like the Walthers trucks due to their durability and fairly good appearance. Of course, I haven't taken my scale ruler to them, or counted the rivits. Perhaps (at least in my case) ignorance is bliss. I do wish Walthers had included the bearing caps on the OSH trucks.

I don't care for Walthers or Branchline trucks. They don't roll worth a darn without working on them and they derail at the drop of a hat in places where nothing else does.

Lots of good ideas, I have similar problems with Walthers trucks, especially six wheel types.

I have found that some truck frames catch on the car underbody parts. A little trimming of either the truck or the car body helps.

As for noise, light lubrication cuts down on what the cars emit and help them to roll.

But I do wish Walthers would deliver a better truck with its products. Don't you hate to have a derailment for no good reason other than the out0of-the-box truck is at fault?

SPB

So do I have an update!

Last night I decided to do 1 car as a test. I focused on updating the trucks on one of the 6 axle cars. I removed the trucks, removed 2 screws and replaced the Walthers wheelsets with Intermountain 36" wheelsets. They fit fine and I put the trucks back on. I did not ream the trucks nor did I install any oil. I placed the car back on the tracks and pushed and it rolled down the track like butter. I took a similar non converted car and rolled it and it stopped after 6 ". The converted car rolled 20 feet. I decided to pull the existing train by hand and I was surprised how much drag was in the train. Holy Toledo, these cars don't roll worth a damn. I put the newly converted car back in the train and ran it just to see if it would derail. It did not. Ok let me do 2 more and then go to bed. I stayed up and did all 11 cars. D-Day. How will this run? I first pulled the train by hand and it was like night and day. The train had no drag and rolled like glass. OK let's hook up the F40's and let it roll. Zero noise. None of that "One who flew over the Cuckoo's nest" chirping that will send you to the lunny farm. Wow! I noticed the train was actually rolling faster also. When it hit the scale speedometer, the data did not hide. A scale 7 MPH faster at full throttle. Zero derailments after 2 hours of running so far. I have pushed it too. Running through crossovers at full speed. I even backed it up!

So there you have it. Rick, you called it and you were dead on. Well done my man.

Bruce

PS - When you install the wheel sets, you have make sure all the wheels on both trucks are the same. In other words, all insulated on the same side on both trucks. Walthers has this funky pickup system for lighting and if you do it any other way, you get a short.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/13 18:48 by brfriedm.

Gratz Bruce. A great story and probably helpful for others who have had similar problems.

BTW, I have two Walthers 52-seat P-S passenger cars although they are in storage and I haven't run them yet. If your experience is common to many or most passenger cars, I may be back reading this thread and seeing if I need to do the same thing!