Model Railroading > Athearn Genesis F & GP Truck Question

This question is a continuation of the thread "Electrical problems with Genesis MP15". Do newer releases of Athearn Genesis F units or GPs have an updated truck design or are they exactly the same as earlier models? My brother has a NP F9 (2002 release) and is having the same wheel pickup / electrical problems. The engine was recently purchased new online and we installed a Tsunami sound decoder in the engine. Ran great at first, but now the engine will run a couple of feet, appears to lose electrical contact and the decoder resets.

I have a Genesis GN F7 and was unhappy with the way it ran. It had a noticeable "wobble". Because I spent so much time installing a Tsunami sound decoder, headlights and classification lights, I decided to replace the drive with one of my Stewart/Kato drives. It took some work, but I am very happy with results. However for the price of the Genesis, I believe the truck design should have better tolerances and like the Kato trucks, bushings for the axle pickups.

I purchased a GP-9 a while back. It would keep stopping. I called the dealer, they said they
couldn't help because I was using NCE and they didn't sell that brand (at the time). What a lame
excuse! I called Athearn and the person said they had other calls with similar problem. He suggested
removing wheels so I could access the bearings and remove any excess lubrication. It worked for a while, but then continued to stop at will. It's disappointing to pay so much for an engine that works perfectly, it's unacceptable when problems like this occur. You can put a 20 oz. bottle of soda on the track and crank up the controller. You won't see any difference in performance between it and the Athearn engine, BUT, you will have saved about $300.
Frank30

Following the suggestions on the previous thread, I got NWSL replacement axles and some Atlas lubricant that was recommended by the hobby shop. I'm hoping to try it out tonight and will report the results.

Soldering a wiper wire to the inside of the bearing plate to run on the axles outside the wheels would be a reasonably easy project.

Posted from Windows Phone OS 7

DCC is much more sensitive to continuity drop-outs since the receiver basically re-boots every time the voltage drops out. Some applications use a 'stay alive' circuit, a non-polarized capacitor may work out as well. Not sure what size it would need to be, would think it simply needs to keep above a minimum voltage.

Agree the problem should not be there for the price. I'm suspecting some of these projects are simply coined from previous manufacturers and not as well thought out as we would like.

Pick up problems with the Genesis line are widespread and I have seen numerous posts complaining about this and numerous suggestions on how to fix this. As usual, Athearn only really cares about the Prototype fidelity of the unit, not the DCC, lighting or running capabilities of the unit. A major weakness of Athearn and it's staff.

Bruce

Hello all

I have a few Athearn GP15-1's, F7, GP38-2 and two years ago I had the same problem. Every time my CR GP15-1 moved over switches at slow speed the engine would cut in and out. I also soldered the wires to the cooper pickup and board but that did not seem to help.

After looking over the trucks I noticed that the center inside plastic axle gears of the wheels were rubbing the inside trucks assembly. Because the axles were rubbing the inside of the trucks the contact points on the wheels would barely touch the inside top or sides of the cooper pickups allowing the trucks to short out. The wheels need to rest on the cooper pickup and not on the inside assembly.

To fix the problem removed the bottom plate and wheels. Use a sharp hobby knife and remove(shave)some plastic from inside around the truck wheel wells. Take your time and make sure to remove any plastic shavings from the gears or inside. You just need to remove a small amount of plastic. Put everything back together and take your engine for a spin.

This fix should improve the running of your Athearn B truck engines. And remember to be careful, take your time and keep your tracks clean.

Good luck,
AStone

I'm surprised nobody has come up with this little thought;
YOU NEED TO HAVE CLEAN WHEELS AND CLEAN TRACK!
The very first thing I do after taking a new locomotive
out of the box is clean the wheels.... I recently bought
a Genesis GP-9 and after cleaning the wheels I programed
and it has run flawlessly ever since. I've done this with
all my locomotives when they stall, and then proceed to clean
the track.
Right now I'm in the middle of a small extension of my layout
and there is dust all over everything. After installing a new
NCE throttle panel I wanted to test it out. I put my Kato NW-2
with a Tsunami DCC and sound unit in it and it ran for about
2 seconds. I knew right away what was wrong and grabbed my
lighter fluid and a rag and wiped down the track. Made all
the difference in the world and this is the most sensitive
unit I have to dirty track.
Old DC was never like this but the new DCC sure is.
cf7

cf7 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm surprised nobody has come up with this little
> thought;
> YOU NEED TO HAVE CLEAN WHEELS AND CLEAN TRACK!

This isn't the issue here, or people wouldn't just be talking about Athearn engines.

I just swapped out the Athearn stock wheels for NWSL replacements. The post from the other day linked to a diagram showing how the ends of the Athearn axles have tapered tips, while the NWSL have square tips and are slightly longer, so they fit more fully into the metal bearing on the sideframe. (post: http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?3,3197476)

I just ran the engine around after the switch, and I think the performance has improved. At factory throttle 2 or 3 there is no longer any stopping. At 1 (I like to run slow) there is some stopping on my uniquely bad track, but I think it works elsewhere fine. I don't know that the issue is fully fix, but the problem is certainly much less severe.

I don't understand the comment about filing away plastic... as I thought that the only electrical contact somes from the connection of the end of each axle to the sideframes. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

The problem is, the middle of the axles are resting on the trucks assembly and not on the pick ups points fully. Ounce again the wheels points need to rest on the pickups for good contact. I personally believe this is a design flaw on Athearn's part. Atlas and Kato has the same design with out any issue.

But don't take my word for it, my engines are now running without any problems.

If you don't have the skills to fix it I would send the model back to Athearn. And yes it does suck to pay so much for a local that does not work and run right.

Remember this is only a suggestion.

AStone



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/13 21:34 by Astone.

Oh yeah, cf7 I also just picked up a GP9 and it runs really, really good (well).
Look like Athearn may have made some design changes to the trucks. I will need to look into but I did noticed that the bottom cover was redesign compared to my earlier F7 and CR GP15-1.

AStone

I have 2 Genesis MP15s and 4 Genesis GP15s (all sound equipped) of varying ages. I have had similar issues to those mentioned here on about half of the 4 axle Genesis locos I own and now for all my locos (Genesis Included) make sure I undertake the following tasks before putting them into traffic:

1)Fully disassemble the bogie and driveline and clean away all factory applied lubricants,
2)Replace all wheels with NWSL Equivalents,
3)Replace all pickup wiring between bogies and PCB with TCS decoder wire and make all electrical connections permanent using soldered joints,
4)Reassemble checking for problems as I go.

I then lightly lubricate bogie mechanism, thoroughly clean all wheels and run the loco at medium speed for up to two hours in each direction using a rolling road.

Since doing the above, implementing powered frogs (switched using Frog Juicers) and a regular track and wheel cleaning regime across my fleet I have had zero problems. Except for during one exhibition during which the track and wheels on the stock in use got dirty quicker than usual. Spent 15 mins cleaning track and wheels then voila, no problems.

Cheers

ChrisM

What is the reasoning for replacing the Athearn wheelsets with NWSL? Just curious. Thanks Bruce


Parthia27 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have 2 Genesis MP15s and 4 Genesis GP15s (all
> sound equipped) of varying ages. I have had
> similar issues to those mentioned here on about
> half of the 4 axle Genesis locos I own and now for
> all my locos (Genesis Included) make sure I
> undertake the following tasks before putting them
> into traffic:
>
> 1)Fully disassemble the bogie and driveline and
> clean away all factory applied lubricants,
> 2)Replace all wheels with NWSL Equivalents,
> 3)Replace all pickup wiring between bogies and PCB
> with TCS decoder wire and make all electrical
> connections permanent using soldered joints,
> 4)Reassemble checking for problems as I go.
>
> I then lightly lubricate bogie mechanism,
> thoroughly clean all wheels and run the loco at
> medium speed for up to two hours in each direction
> using a rolling road.
>
> Since doing the above, implementing powered frogs
> (switched using Frog Juicers) and a regular track
> and wheel cleaning regime across my fleet I have
> had zero problems. Except for during one
> exhibition during which the track and wheels on
> the stock in use got dirty quicker than usual.
> Spent 15 mins cleaning track and wheels then
> voila, no problems.
>
> Cheers
>
> ChrisM

The NWSL stub axles are longer and therefore maintain better electrical continuity with the bogie side plates. IMO their wheels seem to keep clean for longer too. I made the decision to implement NWSL across my fleet as I have a small stable, for 16 x 4 axle units the cost is not too high. For others this may not be the case. I also took a conscious decision to move to Code 88 Wheels so it was really a no brainer for me to go NWSL.

ChrisM

Parthia27 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The NWSL stub axles are longer and therefore
> maintain better electrical continuity with the
> bogie side plates. IMO their wheels seem to keep
> clean for longer too. I made the decision to
> implement NWSL across my fleet as I have a small
> stable, for 16 x 4 axle units the cost is not too
> high. For others this may not be the case. I also
> took a conscious decision to move to Code 88
> Wheels so it was really a no brainer for me to go
> NWSL.
>
> ChrisM


I installed the NWSL wheels to an Athearn Genesis GP-9 and still have the problem. A lot. And I do not have the skills to add wipers, so I'm at my wit's end.

Art House
Gettysburg, Pa.

Is this the correct NWSL Part?
3-8 HO Athearn Half-Axle Wheelsets
http://www.nwsl.com/NWSL_Online_Catalog.html

So if you buy a Athearn Genesis unit, it looks like you have to do the following:

1. Replace with NWSL wheelsets
2. Replace wiring with updated wiring and solder all connections
3. Remove all factory lubricant and replace
4. Solder all connections to electronics board that use junk black tabs
5. Replace all junk bulbs with LED's
6. Repair or replace all broken and warped handrails


Did I miss anything LOL!

Bruce

brfriedm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So if you buy a Athearn Genesis unit, it looks
> like you have to do the following:
>
> 1. Replace with NWSL wheelsets
> 2. Replace wiring with updated wiring and solder
> all connections
> 3. Remove all factory lubricant and replace
> 4. Solder all connections to electronics board
> that use junk black tabs
> 5. Replace all junk bulbs with LED's
> 6. Repair or replace all broken and warped
> handrails
>
>
> Did I miss anything LOL!
>
> Bruce

It is pretty awful. I have spent way more time and extra money on my MP15 than I expected.

brfriedm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So if you buy a Athearn Genesis unit, it looks
> like you have to do the following:
>
> 1. Replace with NWSL wheelsets
> 2. Replace wiring with updated wiring and solder
> all connections
> 3. Remove all factory lubricant and replace
> 4. Solder all connections to electronics board
> that use junk black tabs
> 5. Replace all junk bulbs with LED's
> 6. Repair or replace all broken and warped
> handrails
>
>
> Did I miss anything LOL!
>
> Bruce

...no sir, them's the hard facts. So now ask me why I only have two Athearn Genesis locomotives left in my fleet...
...as an example, the Genesis GP40-2s may have finer details than the Atlas ones, but the Atlas one's ALWAYS work and have operating headlights that don't burn out, and they never stall and lose their signal on every switch like my Genesis units do...
...I buy my model loco's to run, not just sit in a collection all the time, but unfortunately my display case seems permanently occupied by several Athearn loco's, along with the infamous Intermountain AC12...

Casselton

Here is a picture of what to modify and a video of my GP15-1 running after the fix a few months ago. This fix is much cheaper then replacing the wheels.

I tried a couple of packs of NWSL wheels and I believe I got a bad batch. All the wheels had deep grooves on them.

AStone

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