Model Railroading > Another store closes

Just got an email that Engine House Hobbies in Wichita (KS) is closing its doors. That is/was basically our only dedicated train store in the area.

Mike

Wow. I'm not surprised. Last time I stopped in it was very slim pickings on the shelves.

It used to be a great hobby shop with plenty of new stock and old goodies.

Eric

That seems to be a sad trend that seems to have taken hold in the past 10 years or so.
Kids aren't interested in taking over the family business and the store closes when the owner retires/dies.

sd39u Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow. I'm not surprised. Last time I stopped in
> it was very slim pickings on the shelves.
>
> It used to be a great hobby shop with plenty of
> new stock and old goodies.
>
> Eric


But then,even when the shelves were full of fabulous items, one by one, people who used to BUY there, started just LOOKING there and buying online. They rationalized it by thinking things like: "Oh, he won't miss the sale of this one locomotive, or he won't miss this sale of ten packs of Kadee 5's." As fewer and fewer items were being sold, fewer and fewer new things got ordered, until the shelves became "slim pickings," when folks who came in to just LOOK again. I know, I know, "he should have had a web site," and he should have "changed with the times," and "if he can't compete, he deserves to fail," I've heard it all before, and I know all those things are true. But, in the end, most all of us contributed to this and every other LHS's downfall, so we have no one to blame but ourselves. We can all lament the closing of our favorite hobby shops, but the fact of the matter is that enough of us just didn't care enough to keep them in business. If you still happen to have a brick & mortar hobby shop that you enjoy & patronize, LOVE it, CHERISH it and SUPPORT it, as best you can, as it too, will most probably be gone--and much sooner than you think.

I have to add to this: with more and more manufacturers and distributors selling directly to consumers, at prices at or near a shopkeeper's cost, coupled with obscene price competition from online sellers, along with ever increasing rent, employee wages, insurance, utilities and other overhead expenses, not to mention utterly suffocating government fees, taxes, restrictions, regulations and other hoops a shop owner must jump through, the thought of closing their doors is sad, but starts to look very appealing to a struggling owner who is of advancing age. The next time some jerk comes in and asks him to match an internet price--on something he already has marked down to his cost, may be the last time anyone has the opportunity to ask the man behind the counter anything, as he will lock the doors and never open them again.

The internet has caused many stores to close and the modelers who chose the internet over local stores can look at themselves as the problem. Oh gee its cheeper on the net so will buy that engine or car there and then go in to the local store, buy the glue or paint and tell the owner about the new engine they just bought. See it happen where I did business and yup it closed due to that. The tears flow when they close but not a word about what happens to the owner afterwards, did he find another job? Open another business? Chances are the family is not doing so well now due to no income but who has gone to see? No one.

Complain all we want about the internet killing hobby shops...it's capitalism and its survival of the fittest in the business world.

If a locomotive retails for $299.98 and I can buy it online for $210 that's a lot of money saved. Especially when you don't have to pay sales tax on mail order stuff. Even if the local guy marks the locomotive down to $240, I'm still money ahead by buying online to save the 9% sales tax. 25 years ago...none of this mattered. Freight car kits were $7-15 and locomotives were $30-60. Buying stuff via mail order really didn't save you all that much.

Heck...when I travel to Denver...I shop Caboose Hobbies...pick out all my stuff...take it to the mail order counter and have them ship it home to avoid the sales tax.

Eric

You should have been at Mainline Hobby Supply in tiny Blue Ridge Summit, Pa.( far from any metro area), last Saturday. Dozens of shoppers, parking lot jammed, all for its annual open house and program of local layout tours.

The shop remains full of inventory, gets anything they don't have promptly, and has not only expanded in the last few years, but is absolutely thriving. I asked for an obscure Microscale decal they did not have in stock last week, and I picked it up there yesterday--just a tiny example of their level of service. The shelves are filled with everything in every scale, new releases, old standbys, books, magazines, scenery supplies, paint, parts galore. They also have display layouts fully operating in all the scales.

Lots of LHSs have closed; Mainline has only gotten better.

Anyone wanting to pronounce the death of the LHS ought to take a look at Mainline. They're on the web; check them out.

Art House
Gettysburg, Pa.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/14 08:28 by aehouse.

Well said Streamliner.

The internet is basically having the same affect on the LHS as Walmart did to the main street businesses of small town America. Some of those businesses learned to change, compete, and thrive while others did not.

Unfortunately there are not enough of the "old style" buyers left in too many of the LHS geographic areas.

However, I put equal blame on the "limited run" production that our hobby has become as well as the higher costs of RTR superdetailed locomotives and freight cars. The two factors work in conjunction to create the "bare shelves" phenomenon that is experienced in most hobby shops today. The limited run production creates a feast or famine stock supply - preorders never see the shelves and what little overstock(if any) is ordered is soon gone with nothing to replace the shelf space quickly. This creates the atmosphere of a dying hobby shop even though the store is still making sales, just not seen in relation to sell off the shelf. The superdetailed RTR models also cost more, thus the LHS can not afford to take a chance on many models for walk-in sales. Not bashing the so called rivet counters, as I do believe they have helped the hobby, but as anything in life there are consequences. In the model railroad hobby, the consequence has been the devastating affect on the LHS count across the country.

Jay

Yes,you are right.By not buying an item at list,or close to list price you are denying a local hobby shop the revenue they might badly need. As sales decline,the business fails and ceases to exist. The proprieter very well may fall on hard times,and yes,that is a sad event. Now the other side of the coin is,I,as I am sure most hobbiests,have a finite amount to discretionary income to apply to hobbies and other interests. If I pay list price to a hobby shop,thereby helping to keep him in business,I may only be able to afford one or two items. If I find the most affordable price,I will thereby have more funds available to make other purchases,thereby supporting other businesses.Hobby dollars are in most cases a zero sum game. They get distributed to where it can find the most effective use. Some win,some lose.Hobby shops,by and large,are just middle men,distributing products of others for an added cost.If they don't add value to a purchase,they become uneccessary in the chain.It is up to the individual buyer to determind if that added value is worth the cost.If enough buyers agree it is,the business succeeds,if not,it fails.

So those who encourage supporting the local shop at higher cost are almost in a sense supporting underwriting said business at the expense of another.Capitalism works.If there is a real demand for model RR products,someone will be there to meet said demand,and profit from it.Think of pushing like on a balloon,push here and it expands there,but the volume stays the same.



Tom

My LHS got their Christmas order in July, so I already had my Christmas !, Now I'm looking forward to Happy IRS check day !

Ed Stewart
Jacksonville, FL

garr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well said Streamliner.
>
> The internet is basically having the same affect
> on the LHS as Walmart did to the main street
> businesses of small town America. Some of those
> businesses learned to change, compete, and thrive
> while others did not.
>
> Unfortunately there are not enough of the "old
> style" buyers left in too many of the LHS
> geographic areas.
>
> However, I put equal blame on the "limited run"
> production that our hobby has become as well as
> the higher costs of RTR superdetailed locomotives
> and freight cars. The two factors work in
> conjunction to create the "bare shelves"
> phenomenon that is experienced in most hobby shops
> today. The limited run production creates a feast
> or famine stock supply - preorders never see the
> shelves and what little overstock(if any) is
> ordered is soon gone with nothing to replace the
> shelf space quickly. This creates the atmosphere
> of a dying hobby shop even though the store is
> still making sales, just not seen in relation to
> sell off the shelf. The superdetailed RTR models
> also cost more, thus the LHS can not afford to
> take a chance on many models for walk-in sales.
> Not bashing the so called rivet counters, as I do
> believe they have helped the hobby, but as
> anything in life there are consequences. In the
> model railroad hobby, the consequence has been the
> devastating affect on the LHS count across the
> country.
>
> Jay

Actually, the limited run deal has actually caused me to visit shops more often and search for those left overs. . I travel allot, and always make sure to stop in a local shop, and buy something.... But I have a shopping list of sorts, or things that I am looking for.

And then there's stores that are doing well enough to get bigger. Randys Round House in Lincoln will be moving to a larger space in the same mall some time in October. He discounts 20% on most things. Gets what you want. And as far as sales tax. Hard to support a city if theres no tax base. 4 Walmarts in Lincoln and I don't support them.
Steve

I really prefer to buy all my rolling stock at the LHS and don't mind paying extra. Why? Because that way i can inspect and test run them, especially locomotives. I can check to make sure all the detail parts are in place before i buy it. I hate it when stuff arrives in the mail broken.

Posted from iPhone

As long as online purchases continue, stores will go the way of thew Dodo!!!

Yet with all the "competition" from online retailers, I'm amazed sometimes at the less-than-helpful attitude displayed by SOME employees.

This actually happened within the past year-

Had an instance where we wanted some bulbs. Walked in to a LHS and asked for the 12v miniatronics which are 1.7mm in width and the employee had the nerve to act "put-out" because we didn't have the actual part number. What the heck did he want...for us to go online to look it up for him?

Makes you want to say: "I'm sorry, am I bothering you by walking into your store?" Forget you Mr. brick-and-mortar. I'll just go online and have it tomorrow.

It's not just about lower prices. A LHS can keep us coming back by being HELPFUL and showing us the items in person.

MRL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As long as online purchases continue, stores will
> go the way of thew Dodo!!!


Don't worry. I'm officially predicting the internet to stop "being a thing" in about two years.

Mark my words.

- Jeff Carlson

Other modelers (cars, airplanes and armour) have used on-line shopping for years, yet they don't seem to have the problems model railroaders seem to have with store closures. Why is that?

Streamliner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> sd39u Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Wow. I'm not surprised. Last time I stopped
> in
> > it was very slim pickings on the shelves.
> >
> > It used to be a great hobby shop with plenty of
> > new stock and old goodies.
> >
> > Eric
>
>
> But then,even when the shelves were full of
> fabulous items, one by one, people who used to
> BUY there, started just LOOKING there and buying
> online. They rationalized it by thinking things
> like: "Oh, he won't miss the sale of this one
> locomotive, or he won't miss this sale of ten
> packs of Kadee 5's." As fewer and fewer items
> were being sold, fewer and fewer new things got
> ordered, until the shelves became "slim pickings,"
> when folks who came in to just LOOK again. I
> know, I know, "he should have had a web site," and
> he should have "changed with the times," and "if
> he can't compete, he deserves to fail," I've heard
> it all before, and I know all those things are
> true. But, in the end, most all of us contributed
> to this and every other LHS's downfall, so we have
> no one to blame but ourselves. We can all lament
> the closing of our favorite hobby shops, but the
> fact of the matter is that enough of us just
> didn't care enough to keep them in business. If
> you still happen to have a brick & mortar hobby
> shop that you enjoy & patronize, LOVE it, CHERISH
> it and SUPPORT it, as best you can, as it too,
> will most probably be gone--and much sooner than
> you think.
>
> I have to add to this: with more and more
> manufacturers and distributors selling directly to
> consumers, at prices at or near a shopkeeper's
> cost, coupled with obscene price competition from
> online sellers, along with ever increasing rent,
> employee wages, insurance, utilities and other
> overhead expenses, not to mention utterly
> suffocating government fees, taxes, restrictions,
> regulations and other hoops a shop owner must jump
> through, the thought of closing their doors is
> sad, but starts to look very appealing to a
> struggling owner who is of advancing age. The
> next time some jerk comes in and asks him to match
> an internet price--on something he already has
> marked down to his cost, may be the last time
> anyone has the opportunity to ask the man behind
> the counter anything, as he will lock the doors
> and never open them again.

It's sad, isn't it Streamliner? I no longer have my local hobby shop (which was STRICTLY trains!!!). In fact the motto of mine was "Trains are our ONLY business!!!" Those who are lucky enough to have a hobby shop, let alone a strictly RR hobby shop and have lost it due to merely "looking," you deserve what yuo've lost, pardners. Bet yall miss them now, don't you? Kind of makes it a bit harder to order even off the Internet, doesn't it? Just not the same as being able to go an look at the real thing is it?

I feel sorry for the residents of Wichita--I have a close friend there. Too damn bad.

PHall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Other modelers (cars, airplanes and armour) have
> used on-line shopping for years, yet they don't
> seem to have the problems model railroaders seem
> to have with store closures. Why is that?

That's an interesting question. Could it be that the younger generation has failed to be attracted to model rring, and railroading in general, as they have been to the above "thriving businesses" that you describe? That is something dreadful to contemplate, isn't it?

PHall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Other modelers (cars, airplanes and armour) have
> used on-line shopping for years, yet they don't
> seem to have the problems model railroaders seem
> to have with store closures. Why is that?

The prices are very controlled by RC manufacturers, so the price online is the same price you see at your local store for the most part, unless they are unwise and going above the MAP/MSRP. Having a generous parts selection and a track for people to gather at is another advantage for the on and off-road RC types. I've also found the RC crowd to be generally more pleasant to be around. My kids were sucked into the RC airplane hobby because they wondered over to a group that had made a makeshift airfield while I was at Softball practice and next thing I know, my 11 year old is flying a trainer with one of the my friends that was also there (never knew he was an RC flyer). Great way to build future RC pilots.

From my experiences traveling all over the place, this is what I've seen with MRR shops.

- Less than helpful employees and the constant glare from behind the counter at non-local shoppers. I spent 2 hours wondering around an RC shop in Huntsville, AL looking at all the cool stuff while waiting to catch my flight. I had three employees come over and ask if I needed any help and to just let them know then went about their business. I spent 30 minutes talking to a 20-something employee about everything RC. I wish I could have fit all the stuff I wanted to buy in my carry-on.
- 98% of the evil "online" shops I buy from, I've visited in person because they are competitive in the 21st Century...gee they have both online AND a Brick N' Mortar store. Who would have thought.
- The younger crowd seems to hang out more at the shops in Europe, where even the small shops are friendlier than most of comparable size in the states.
- The lack of a clean, well lit, and organized store is also annoying. Some enjoy the hunt, but if you are limited on time during a visit, not so much. Been to to many that feel and smell like a dungeon.

Sorry, every city in America is not going to have a Caboose Hobbies, Trainworld, or M.B. Kleins in their backyard. They don't have the population to support it, unless you have a way to expand your market...hello internet! Hmmm, all three of those do.

Blame it all you want on the change from kits to RTR or less hobbyists or whatever. Bottom line is you adapt to your market or suffer from bad business decisions. That's how Capitalism works and if you don't like it, well, you're better off closed and finding a new line of work. Does anyone feel bad when someone gets laid off due to downsizing or cutbacks or whatever at Company X. Companies cut the dead weight first before letting good employees go, why should hobby shops be any different. Oh, probably because we are emotionally tied to it because it effects OUR hobby.

I'm not a hobby shop bailout program, so my discretionary money goes to those that earn it. Would you keep throwing money at a bad contractor that screws up a new deck you want added to your house hoping he gets it right just because he has a family to feed too. I don't think so.

Jeff, I'd bet against your prediction about internet buying going away in two years. Even if congress gets off their collective arse and passes the mandatory "internet sales tax."

Cheers,
Brian



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/14 08:04 by BrianK.