Model Railroading > Grinding my teeth - Bowser 636

Well, I have cleaned all the nasty oil and grease from the truck gear case, gears and axles and reassembled the case without the axles. When I rotate the gears with a small screwdriver both the three gears under the worm gear(not attached) and the three idler gears between #2 and #3 axles bind after about 3/4 of a turn and then they free up again. Perplexed! Bad gears? Frustrated

Contact Bowser directly with your concern. They have excellent customer service.

Funny you should mention this as I have my BN unit apart right now doing the same thing. I found it helps to ream out the holes in the sides of the gear box. Just use a #52 drill bit and you won't need to put it in a pin vise. Just shove the drill bit through and pull back and forth. This seems to have helped. If you want to you can try a #51 bit but that might be a little too much. So far I have not run the loco after reassembling but I do not think I will need to go to the #51.

The other thing to do is use some Labelle oil all around the gears as well as a dab on each side of the gear stem which go into the holes that I suggest reaming out above. It looks like the assemblers put this heavy grease on the side of the gears and *not* in the gear teeth. I think our re-oiling these should do wonders.

As a final comment, I tested my units on DC as soon as I got them and all of the units seem to run better after some run in. This is because the grease both softens and runs into the teeth. However, when I opened the gear box, the first thing that hits is the poor choice of location for the grease so I clean it all out and re-do it.

I note for those of us who purchased a non-sound unit, there is opportunity to add some extra weight in there.

Rick

PS. This tells me that sometimes it doesn't pay to be first when it comes to new models. I have to say that two models highly anticipated by myself were the GMD-1 and this C636. Rapido did a wonderful job on their GMD-1 and we move to the other end of the scale with the Bowser C636. I scratch my head over this because they did a great job on the C430.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/14 01:56 by rschonfelder.

Just wondering, I had contemplated buying one of the earlier Bowser C630's, were they plagued with the many problems that these C636's are having? specifically I wanted to get a Reading version with hi-ad trucks and a Union Pacific with trimounts.....

Thanks,

Dan

Bowser is working on the problem with the gears.
Denise from, The Train Shop, Santa Clara, CA.
Called them Monday morning after I went in and told him , the Athearn GP9 I bought out pulls the 636 .I also told him of the others complaining.

Posted from Android

So, we are cleaning gear cases, gears of nasty thick grease and oil; filing gear teeth or reaming out gear case openings for gear shafts to compensate for defective parts or design? I paid over $200.00 for this beautiful BN 636 that I have waited so long for and this! Could there be replacement gears? Does NWSL make such items. I guess a call to Bowser is in order. I recently purchased two Rivarossi NP U25C and they run so smooooooth right out of the box. Dang!

Posted from iPhone

Ozolian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, we are cleaning gear cases, gears of nasty
> thick grease and oil; filing gear teeth or reaming
> out gear case openings for gear shafts to
> compensate for defective parts or design? I paid
> over $200.00 for this beautiful BN 636 that I have
> waited so long for and this! Could there be
> replacement gears? Does NWSL make such items. I
> guess a call to Bowser is in order. I recently
> purchased two Rivarossi NP U25C and they run so
> smooooooth right out of the box. Dang!
>
> Posted from iPhone

If you don't like it you can always return it.

I'd be ok for one or two 'fixes' since we've been pretty desperate for these, tuning the holes in the side of the gear casing is getting a bit much.

Yes, bought it at the LHS. Yes, the U25C's run like champs, right out of the box.

I returned mine and voted with my wallet.

I will wait for future runs that address the following.

1. New and improved motor
2. New gearing
3. Lowering the frame
4. New 5000k fuel tanks

I know they will not add the 8 pin NMRA DCC interface to the board but we can work with the 21 pin interface.

Just looked at my CC statement. My credit card has been credited from Kleins. I'm out of this comedy.

Bruce

SteamTrainJunkie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bowser is working on the problem with the gears.
> Denise from, The Train Shop, Santa Clara, CA.
> Called them Monday morning after I went in and
> told him , the Athearn GP9 I bought out pulls the
> 636 .I also told him of the others complaining.
>
> Posted from Android


They seem to be working on a lot of issues, what gets me is the idea of a new motor that probably won't fit.

Spoke with Bowser this morning. They are holding the second batch in China until problem is corrected. According to them, the gear case is the problem and the above advice can remedy the problem. However, they do offer to repair the model or exchange trucks.
Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate hearing your advice. Waiting for parts!

Posted from iPhone

I have almost $100 of your USD currency invested in shipping my five units Downunder. Unfortunately, I need to find my own fix.

I certainly am interested in what others have to say about Rivarossi's first venture for 4 or 5 decades into the North American scene because I certainly have become cautious.

Rick

Well, they don't alway get em right on the first attempt, as Athearn and Intermountain can attest to with their Genesis GP-9s and Cab Forwards respectively. We can hope that Bowser will make the necessary corrections for the next run, just like Athearn and Intermountain did. I definitely agree with 1-4 that you suggest. Make the adjustments, and we'll have one hell of a model. Geet er donnnne! Cheers. Mark

brfriedm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I returned mine and voted with my wallet.
>
> I will wait for future runs that address the
> following.
>
> 1. New and improved motor
> 2. New gearing
> 3. Lowering the frame
> 4. New 5000k fuel tanks
>
> I know they will not add the 8 pin NMRA DCC
> interface to the board but we can work with the 21
> pin interface.
>
> Just looked at my CC statement. My credit card has
> been credited from Kleins. I'm out of this
> comedy.
>
> Bruce

I personally cannot accept this statement. As a further update to the points I suggested above, I can now tell you it hasn't worked. The first run of my reassembled effort has the gears still binding. Why do we need to hope Bowser get them right in the next run? I buy Aussie models down here and those guys go to China for small runs of 2000-3000 units. Virtually all of those are commissioned first time and they get it right with excellent running and looking models. With this C636, we are supposed to wait for the third run as per Bowser's release on Facebook.

This situation has to be virtually the worst model ever released to market. And I might add, because no one else has noted it, Bowser boast’s the design and injection moulding was done in the USA and the assembly was done in China. I do not think the assembly is the problem as they are just putting together what they were sent. This sure doesn’t hold well for “bringing it all back to the USA” does it? IIRC, the delay for this model was partially caused by an American subcontractor as well.

In my eyes, Bruce Friedman's points (previous thread) are correct and exact. They need to fix the height, the fuel tank, the gear assembly and put in a higher torque motor. I tried to fix the gear motion but it has not resulted in any correction. both the unit I worked on and a stock one have gear bind. I have put enough effort into this and have requested a return on four of the five units I have. The one I lowered and tried to fix the bind will have to become a dummy; at least it looks right.

Rick

rschonfelder Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I personally cannot accept this statement. As a
> further update to the points I suggested above, I
> can now tell you it hasn't worked. The first run
> of my reassembled effort has the gears still
> binding. Why do we need to hope Bowser get them
> right in the next run? I buy Aussie models down
> here and those guys go to China for small runs of
> 2000-3000 units. Virtually all of those are
> commissioned first time and they get it right with
> excellent running and looking models. With this
> C636, we are supposed to wait for the third run as
> per Bowser's release on Facebook.
>
> This situation has to be virtually the worst model
> ever released to market. And I might add, because
> no one else has noted it, Bowser boast’s the
> design and injection moulding was done in the USA
> and the assembly was done in China. I do not
> think the assembly is the problem as they are just
> putting together what they were sent. This sure
> doesn’t hold well for “bringing it all back to
> the USA” does it? IIRC, the delay for this
> model was partially caused by an American
> subcontractor as well.
>
> In my eyes, Bruce Friedman's points (previous
> thread) are correct and exact. They need to fix
> the height, the fuel tank, the gear assembly and
> put in a higher torque motor. I tried to fix the
> gear motion but it has not resulted in any
> correction. both the unit I worked on and a stock
> one have gear bind. I have put enough effort into
> this and have requested a return on four of the
> five units I have. The one I lowered and tried to
> fix the bind will have to become a dummy; at least
> it looks right.
>
> Rick


Yeah you have summarized it well. Let us assume they send a replacement truck to everyone. Even if it lowers the model as well (given that they are denial on this one - don't bet on it), you are still dealing with the motor and fuel tank. I have the three Demo's. If I buy fuel tanks to replace the ones on the five modes I have purchased, matching the paint on the demonstrators is not going to be an easy task.

The C430 was announced long after the C636, has gone through two production runs and were correct right out of the box. Their product development effort is not headed in the right direction.

Here's a procedure some one posted to a list on his "fix" for a C630 that has the same height issue as the C636:

http://www.pbase.com/denlippert/bowser_c630_lowrider&page=all

I've also read on the same list that using a #51 drill to enlarge all but the spur gear(the one that contacts the worm gear) holes in the frames seems to create enough relief in the gear train to eliminate the binding issue. Of course one can wait until Boswer has the replacement trucks available.

I have a BN version that I'm sitting on until I get all the information I can from others pioneering solutions to the issues this product has. The fuel tank issue sounds like it's best to wait until the revised ones come out - I can live with the undersized one for a while.

As for the motor torque issue I'm currently following experiments retrofitting Kato motors/dive rain parts to fix it.

best regards,
Mark G.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/14 09:08 by MarkG.

Rick,

I wonder if any KATO or Genesis trucks and motors are adaptable to the Bowser? I think the Hi-Ad axle spacing is the same as the EMD Flexicoils from an SD45. It might be possible to sacrifice an SD45 to keep the C-636 powered if the sideframes are interchangeable.

I can wait for the Bowser solution to appear if needed.

Posted from Windows Phone OS 7

MarkG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's a procedure some one posted to a list on
> his "fix" for a C630 that has the same height
> issue as the C636:
>
> http://www.pbase.com/denlippert/bowser_c630_lowrid
> er&page=all
>
>

Hi Mark. I lowered my BN unit the same way but I used the closest thing I have to a milling machine. I used my Dremel in a Dremel Drill Press whereas I think the fellow in the Pbase photos used a razor saw. It goes to show that you do not need any fancy tools to convert this. When you go through this exercise it boggles your mind to think they tooled up a compensating part for lowering the coupler.

One point to ask about because it is often confused. I have heard many people refer to the Worm Gear as the spiral gear. This I know to be called the Worm whereas the Worm Gear is the one that contacts the Worm. I am just trying to clarify which one you mean. The gear set I found hard to move are the ones circled but I don't think anyone would go wrong fixing (if possible) all of them.

Last night, I received an email from Lee English and he recommended using a Dremel using the barrel piece without the sanding barrel over top. This is rubber and he said if you do this you'll feel the gears run in. I am pasting his recommendation for all interested.

"I solved the problem by using a Dremel tool on half speed with a rubber drum (sand drum no sanding cover)
and running it on the middle wheel. you will hear it change pitch and get free. I then rotate the truck and run in the
other direction."

I am going to give it a try later.

Rick



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/14 13:46 by rschonfelder.

---

Wow! A lot of conversation about grinding our teeth. Don't quite understand the procedure with the dremel. Having difficulty returning a private message I received. New to Trainorders and can't find personal info on the site to add to my buddy list. Sorry Rick, need assistance.

Posted from iPhone



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/14 18:21 by Ozolian.

Have you guys not thought of "lapping" the gears in with " Toothpaste". It is a mild abrasive and has been used on steam model gear boxes for a good many years, do a search on the MR web sight and you should be able to find it. Jewellers rouge was also used but this was much more abrasive.

Malcolm
New Zealand.