Model Railroading > UP GP38-2 questions

I recently got a can't-leave-the-LHS-without-it deal on an Athearn Genesis UP GP38-2 w/sound such as the one shown in the first attached pic from Athearn.  Eight UP GP38-2s of various lineage visited the IAIS a total of 19 times during the month I model as power that the UP would send across town for the nightly van trains IAIS built for them, so I've got plenty of justification.  Of the 8, four were "classic" UP units such as the one Athearn modeled, renumbered to the 500s, and the other four were later-phase ex-MP units.  Now my dilemma is, which unit to model.  Stripping the older-style UP lettering and touching up the trucks and anti-glare panel is easy enough, but if I go for an ex-MP unit, some of the details appear to be a bit more involved.

Before I bought this model, I had settled on modeling UP 2322 for this service, since it was the most frequent IAIS visitor, coming to the IAIS a total of 6 times that May.  However, to update the Athearn model, it appears as though I'd need to add an anti-climber with new handrails, 88" nose, non-dynamic hatch, liberated exhaust, corrugated radiator screens, and angled paper air filter box.  All seem do-able if Cannon and Athearn's part department cooperate.  However, looking closer at the attached Rick C. prototype pic of the 2322 from RRpicturearchives.net , it appears to have Q fans.  Can someone please confirm what I think I'm seeing?  If I'm correct on that point, can anyone recommend a good source for them in HO?  None of the units I've modeled to date have needed them, and I know Cannon doesn't offer them.  Are the Q fans that Athearn has tooled for previous models comparable in quality to Cannon, or at least to Athearn's standard fans on the factory Geep I bought?

The Genesis model is so nice that it pains me to tear into it, so another option is to simply update it to model one of the UP 500s.  Very tempting.  Attached in the third pic below (also from Rick C. off of RRPA), and in the following post, are pics of the four that came to the IAIS.  One would be fairly easy to model, while the other three would present some interesting weathering challenges.  Any guidance from my TO friends to help me choose would be appreciated.

Joe Atkinson
Council Bluffs, IA
www.iaisrailfans.org/../Sub4WestEnd

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It looks like the steps are different too...

4 - UP 508 - Keith Belk photo from RRPA
5 - UP 516 - Rick C. photo from RRPA
6 - UP 519 - Paul Rome photo from RRPA

Joe Atkinson
Council Bluffs, IA
www.iaisrailfans.org/../Sub4WestEnd



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/15 06:12 by iaisfan.

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Setandcentered Wrote:
> It looks like the steps are different too...

You're absolutely right sir.  Thanks for catching that.  My purchase was actually UP 2028, which has the standard steps, but I initially chose an Athearn pic of UP 2042 without noticing that it had the switcher steps.  I've updated my first post to correct that.

I should also note that, as a general rule, I like to shoot for the commonplace on my layout and avoid the exceptions.  IAIS had enough "exceptions" that WERE commonplace on its roster already. :-)  For that reason, I'm leaning away from the 508, due to its extreme lettering condition, and the 516, which is at the other end of the spectrum, recently updated at that time with new paint and cab A/C.  The 503 and 519 both seem more middle-of-the-road to me, and as mentioned earlier, the 2322 was the most common on the IAIS of any of them, so I'm thinking I've narrowed my choices to those three.

Joe Atkinson
Council Bluffs, IA
www.iaisrailfans.org/../Sub4WestEnd



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/15 06:22 by iaisfan.

Yeah, I've started projects before and thought "oh it'll take 5 minutes"...then began to notice all of the subtle differences.

I'd go with the 503 or 519...at least that way you wouldn't have to fill in the round fuel gauge to do the 2322. Small victories!

Joe I would do the 500 series also. If you want to go with the 2322 I would get a Athearn Mopac 38-2 and then repaint. Trying to change the Athearn model you have can be done but why spend all the extra money and time into a model that you can purchase later on without having to do all the mods. Just sharing my opinion. The 2322 does have Q fans as it looks like a later Mopac purchase with the anti-climber and 88" nose. Hope this helps.

Here's a brand new 2000 at Coucil Bluffs back in '75 when they had quite a few new units in storage there during a traffic downturn. That Genesis looks great and I am not a UP fan.
JB

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Joe,
If you think it's such a nice model the way it is, leave it alone and just weather it like I would do.
Athearn did do a beautiful job on these and I would not touch a thing except, like I said, add a little weathering.
I've gotten to the point now that if I see something I like, and it would fit in to my system, I buy it and "Patch it."
Yesterday I bought one of the new Atlas S-2's letterd for the GTW. Now I have a yard switcher when it's the
GT's turn to switch Olivers Yd. It runs as good as it looks, and sounds even better with the ESU-Lok sound.
Atlas really did a nice job on this one. It's been a year since I ordered it, but the wait was well worth it.
Happy rails,
Russ

What's the pipe running the length along the top of the hood?

Athearn  already made all the parts you need, in order to model the variation, to include the nicest Q-fans. Long story short, check the parts list. 

After Athearn came out with the GP38-2, I bought an undec model to do a particular SP model that does not match the RTR Genesis SP GP38-2s they did. But after looking through the parts included in the model, and what I needed to transform it, I decided to hold off on the project. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/15 10:09 by Stottman.

Thanks everyone for the guidance.  I'm definitely leaning toward doing one of the 500s now.  If China keeps pumping out nice models, I'd imagine Athearn would eventually offer those late-phase ex-MP "canaries" anyway, making my job a lot easier.

Russ wrote:
>If you think it's such a nice model the way it is, leave it alone and just weather it like I would do. 

Thanks Russ.  I'm headed in that direction, but I'd need to do a bit more than weathering for this to fit in on the layout, since it has some very "1970s" details to it.  However, the lettering will be easy to remove and re-decal, and the other changes should be pretty quick.

KA7008 Wrote:
> What's the pipe running the length along the top of the hood?

I don't recall the exact purpose of it, but it has to do with the UP relocating horns from their original location between the radiator fans (as on the model) to the cab.  Pretty common on original UP GP38-2s and SD40-2s, and I've seen similar treatment on an LLPX (ex-Reserve Mining) SD38-2 I modeled.  Would someone please remind me what that piping carries?

Joe Atkinson
Council Bluffs, IA
www.iaisrailfans.org/../Sub4WestEnd

KA7008 Wrote:
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> What's the pipe running the length along the top
> of the hood?

Air line for the relocated horn.

Why compromise? Athearn will sell you the parts if they have them in stock. 

iaisfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks everyone for the guidance.  I'm definitely
> leaning toward doing one of the 500s now.  If
> China keeps pumping out nice models, I'd imagine
> Athearn would eventually offer those late-phase
> ex-MP "canaries" anyway, making my job a lot
> easier.
>
> Russ wrote:
> >If you think it's such a nice model the way it
> is, leave it alone and just weather it like I
> would do. 
>
> Thanks Russ.  I'm headed in that direction, but
> I'd need to do a bit more than weathering for this
> to fit in on the layout, since it has some very
> "1970s" details to it.  However, the lettering
> will be easy to remove and re-decal, and the other
> changes should be pretty quick.
>
> KA7008 Wrote:
> > What's the pipe running the length along the
> top of the hood?
>
> I don't recall the exact purpose of it, but it has
> to do with the UP relocating horns from their
> original location between the radiator fans (as on
> the model) to the cab.  Pretty common on original
> UP GP38-2s and SD40-2s, and I've seen similar
> treatment on an LLPX (ex-Reserve Mining) SD38-2 I
> modeled.  Would someone please remind me what
> that piping carries?

The 519 really looks like it works for a living... That would be my choice.

-Ryan

Antlorch wrote:
> If you want to go with the 2322 I would get a Athearn Mopac 38-2 and then repaint.

I considered that, and had a Mop 38-2 in my hands at the LHS before realizing that it was an early-phase unit with chicken wire grills, 81" nose, etc., so the only thing it really bought me was the non-DB hatch.  Here's a link to the Athearn photos of the model:  http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATHG40607 .

Stottman wrote:
> Why compromise? Athearn will sell you the parts if they have them in stock. 

I'll likely call and check into parts availability.  However, I don't really view it as a compromise regardless of which way I go.  I was never 100% stuck on the 2322, but it was slightly more common on these moves, and it had some interesting detail variations from the IAIS's own early-phase GP38-2s.  However, the 500s have that cool horn piping mentioned above, and I've always had a thing for the pre-merger UP, so I'm not bothered either way.

SP_8299 wrote:
> KA7008 Wrote: 
> > What's the pipe running the length along the top  of the hood? 
>
> Air line for the relocated horn.

I don't mean to doubt you, but this question came up waaaay back in the late 1990s in one of my very first interactions on an on-line (UP) forum, and I remember being scolded by a UP engineer when I made the same statement.  Unfortunately, I don't recall what he said the correct answer was.

Ryan wrote:
> The 519 really looks like it works for a living...That would be my choice.

Thanks Ryan!  I was leaning the same way until I started looking at available photos on-line.  On RRPA, there's only one pic of the 519 before it was repainted into the lightning stripe scheme, but there are several of the 503.  Also, I remembered that I had a little history with the UP 2003 (503 in its earlier life) during a cab ride back in the day, so that was enough to tip the scales in its favor.  Strangely enough, it was MU'd with the 2322 at the time!  So my decision is between those two, but definitely leaning toward the 503.

Thanks again to all for your guidance and input.

Joe Atkinson
Council Bluffs, IA
www.iaisrailfans.org/../Sub4WestEnd



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/15 00:12 by iaisfan.

I ended up having a change of heart about which unit to model, deciding on the 516 instead.  I've got some other UP units in the works that'll be more heavily weathered, so I thought I'd go for a cleaner example with this GP38-2.  Also, I found a cab A/C unit in my parts bin that I'd forgotten I had (not a lot of use for those on the IAIS), so I guess it was meant to be. ;-)

Joe Atkinson
Council Bluffs, IA
www.iaisrailfans.org/../Sub4WestEnd

Good discussion and a good call in the end, Joe.

~RGDave
 

Thanks Dave.  I don't have any other UP units from this period where they started adding cab A/C, so it'll be fun to have one on the roster.

If anyone's interested, here's a Keith Belk photo of one of the UP SD40-2s I'm now weathering, using another Intermountain model.  Hopefully it's clear to see why I opted for a GP38-2 in better condition. :-)

Joe Atkinson
Council Bluffs, IA
www.iaisrailfans.org/../Sub4WestEnd

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iaisfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> SP_8299 wrote:
> > KA7008 Wrote: 
> > > What's the pipe running the length along the
> top  of the hood? 
> >
> > Air line for the relocated horn.
>
> I don't mean to doubt you, but this question came
> up waaaay back in the late 1990s in one of my very
> first interactions on an on-line (UP) forum, and I
> remember being scolded by a UP engineer when I
> made the same statement.  Unfortunately, I don't
> recall what he said the correct answer was.
>

Take a look at the Air Horns section on this web page, especially the fifth paragraph, starting with "Beginning in 1978, new units..."

http://www.utahrails.net/up/up-loco-features.php

Don Strack

donstrack Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> iaisfan Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > SP_8299 wrote:
> > > KA7008 Wrote: 
> > > > What's the pipe running the length along the top  of the hood? 
> > >
> > > Air line for the relocated horn.
> >
> > I don't mean to doubt you, but this question came up waaaay back in the late 1990s in one of my very first interactions on an on-line (UP) forum, and I
> > remember being scolded by a UP engineer when I made the same statement.  Unfortunately, I don't recall what he said the correct answer was.
> >
>
> Take a look at the Air Horns section on this web
> page, especially the fifth paragraph, starting
> with "Beginning in 1978, new units..."
>
> http://www.utahrails.net/up/up-loco-features.php
>
> Don Strack

Thanks very much for that Don.  Very interesting read!

I *thought* that's basically how I described the change back in the '90s, on the old UP "eGroups" list, IIRC...albeit in more simplified form.  Just wish I knew what I wrote then that drew what I remember to be such an angry correction.  I was afraid to post anything for a day or two after that. :-)

Joe Atkinson
Council Bluffs, IA
www.iaisrailfans.org/../Sub4WestEnd