Model Railroading > Scale Trains "Power Pack" Lok Sound V4.0, V5.0, Lok Pilot 4.0

I have been working with my Scale Trains SD40-2 units from the current Run 4 with Lok Sound V5.0 decoders and those from an earlier run with Lok Sound V4.0 decoders. There is also one nonsound engine with a Lok Pilot V4.0.

All of these models come factory equipped with "Power Pack" keep alive capacitors on the Scale Train 21 pin motherboards. A Digitrax DT402D throttle was used.


For both V4.0 and V5.0 decoders on the track with sound and lights on which get lifted off the track the sound and lights stay on for about 4 seconds.

If either version of the decoder is on track with the throttle on and the locomotive moving while one side of the locomotive is tipped off one rail on all axles, the motor moves and lights and sound will stay on for almost 3 seconds. When the locomotive is put back on the rails the unit will resume the speed it was set to with the sound it was running at.

These units were tested on the same throttle they had been running at without the Digitrax power getting shut off or the address on the throttle being changed and brought back.

This is just shade tree mechanics stuff. I did not use a stop watch, it was one thousand one, one thousand two accuracy. I learned the Scale Trains motherboards and Lok Sound decoders look be set up to run on most layouts without dropping out on dirty track and dead frogs.

I don't know if this will result in runaway units if you put one on the track which was previously removed when running. I may set some tests for that later.

Both 2 digit and 4 digit addresses have been successfully changed using the digitrax throttle on a test track in Po mode.

Well, it is good to know that the PowerPack is working in some units.

I have 7 of the Rio Grande SD40T-2 units with the LokSound 5 decoders and none of the PowerPacks seem to actually be working in my units. I hear a very faint sound like they are working but when trying to test them in a very same manner as you have, the lights and sound turns off instantly when the units are tipped. I have tried running them with the sound on and the sound off and they stop running instantly as well. 

I thought I might have had a setting wrong but I couldn't find anything wrong. Turning on the LokSound 5 AUX 9 setting for PowerPack made no difference. Turning off AUX 6 output like you had to do for the Select made no difference. Turning up the PowerPack time to maximum made no difference. 

I am using an NCE PowerCab to run these and test this.

It really doesn't matter much for me anyway because I don't use and won't need the PowerPacks. I might even clip them out entirely, but since they aren't working anyway, it works out nicely for me. Keep Alive circuits are a waste of money gimmick. Wire your track correctly (every piece of track around all turnouts) and keep the track and wheels clean and you won't need them for anything but the smallest of wheelbase locomotives or those with very poor power pick-up. 4 and 6 axle locomotives with all-wheel pick-up should not need them and if the locomotive runs erratically fix the real problem rather than throw expensive Keep Alives at it. Biggest thing I see with erratic running locos I get from people is the trucks are all gummed up with crud. The key too is the axle points have to pass power reliably to the power pick-ups behind the side frames. If these axle points are dirty, the power won't flow. There are a lot of parts of locomotives that people froget to keep clean. All it takes a few minutes to wipe the crud off. Then use a very small drop of Atlas contact cleaner. Amazing how well things work without Keep Alives when they're clean. 

Some day I'll be able to prove my stance with my future layout as my goal is for it to operate flawlessly without the need for Keep Alives. 

Lee Ryan - Rio Grande Fan
Denver, CO

F9 is for Drive Hold which is not the same as Power Pack. Here is what ESU says about Drive Hold.


"Drive Hold:

This feature allows the modeler to easily simulate a loaded or empty train by adding a single “Drive Hold” function button. When the button is pressed, the motor will remain at a constant speed, while the sound can be controlled independently from the motion with the throttle knob!  This exciting, new feature gives the operator the ability to have his or her train crawl in notch 8 or coast at 50mph. Then, by releasing the Drive Hold function button you simply go back to throttle-controlled speed and motion. No more switching between manual notching and programming on the main to go back and forth. All of this can be done on the fly with hardly even thinking about it."

Scale Trains installs Power Pack connected and ready to go once it gets on the track and the capacitors have time to charge.

All of my ST units with the keep alive function - lose the motor but the sound keeps going.  When I was trying to get the 9-diamonds junction working I was doing all of my testing with ST units - and they would stall  almost universally - though the sound stayed up.  My thought is that you would want to keep drive going and let the sound crater...but these seem to be the opposite.  Not complaining - I solved the issue by putting a lot more work into increasing the number of feeders in all of those 25 degree diamonds...but the last units I was abvle to run flawlessly through were the ST SD 40-2's.  I have by the way...bought more of them :)

Bob

Bob,

The motor is the big draw so I think that depletes the Power Pack first. If the sound stays on then the unit does not have to go through the sound start sequence where the motor is not powered until the entire sequence is complete. A couple of seconds of motor power with flywheels should be long enough to get over a dirty spot or dead frog.

I think there is a way to change a CV to power the motor during the start sequence and a keep alive package with more capacitors might be added to the power pack but I think you are on the right track by insuring there is always track power first. It is amazing all the fun things modelers can find to do which are a small part of prototype railroading but open up a whole new can of worms when they try to do it on a layout. For fuel savings, prototype units go to low idle and F4 does that with ST units. You can alse program that so the whole consist of Lok Sound equipped units will go to low speed idle. Next on the prototype is any unit standing still will just shut down to save fuel. It gets really quiet though the air pop offs continue. When it is time to go the engineer needs to restart all the units in the consist by moving the reverser on the lead unit to FWD or REV. The units will not load until the start sequence is complete so the engineer commonly moves the reverser when he sees the meeting train is close. I can't see that is necessary on the layout but it is prototype.

Alan

Lee,

I have been eyeballs deep in ESU manuals trying to decipher their CV assignments, programming and reassignment. I am confused but I have found everything you find in Soundtraxx decoders like in cab sound and radio conversations are in the Lok Sound V5.0 decoders. There are lots of indexed CVs to work through.

One interesting find is concerning the Power Pack. To add to the confusion, the Power Pack is defined as AUX 9 and yet is also part of Func 9. There seems to be some settings for F9 which need to be initialized to activate the keep alive for service. That takes a lot of settings covering the logic of the conditions it will work under ans the time power will stay on in multiples of 0.0328 second multiples.

Where is AE when we need it? Apparently there is some of that in the Lok Programmer with the V5.0 software.

Alan

I thought F9 was drive hold. I do remember seeing that that power pack interval is adjustable like you say. CV 210 comes to mind but I will have to double check that.

Ok I was way off on the cv. It’s CV 113. 

Loksound version 5 manual
 
10.10. Configure the PowerPack
When you connect an external capacitor or PowerPack, you are able to make the decoder switch off after a certain time. CV113 is responsible for that, since you are able to determine at what time the decoder is to switch off (as a multiple of 0.0328 seconds). You should set a time between 0.3 and 1.0 seconds to prevent your locos from driving too far during an emergency.
For the PowerPack to work, the function output responsible for the charge (typically AUX9 for LokSound, AUX7 for LokSound micro) must be configured to the »PowerPackControl« function. Set CV 31 = 16, CV 32 = 0 first.
Then set CV339 = 31 for LokSound (AUX9)
Then set CV323 = 31 for LokSound micro (AUX7).
  Motor On
 CV 127


 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/19 18:39 by ChrisCampi.