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Model Railroading > Why is this causing a short?


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Date: 03/31/21 16:24
Why is this causing a short?
Author: TEEKAY

Why would this crossover be causing a short? I haven't wired it yet - the entre rest of the layout is wired, yet when I created this, it shorts.




Date: 03/31/21 16:56
Re: Why is this causing a short?
Author: tehachapifan

Are the frogs insulated or live? If they're live, are there insulated track joints?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/21 16:58 by tehachapifan.



Date: 03/31/21 17:17
Re: Why is this causing a short?
Author: TEEKAY

tehachapifan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are the frogs insulated or live? If they're live,
> are there insulated track joints?

I believe it is insulated. When I turn the power pack on, I can hear a buzz at the bottom right of this picture



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/21 17:17 by TEEKAY.



Date: 03/31/21 17:27
Re: Why is this causing a short?
Author: tehachapifan

To me, those findings would indicate the frogs are live. In which case, my experience is that this is can ususally be easily solved with some insulated track gaps. What brand track is this? are you powering with DCC and are you getting a short indication?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/21 17:32 by tehachapifan.



Date: 03/31/21 18:05
Re: Why is this causing a short?
Author: TEEKAY

This is Atlas Code-83. I am using a DCC pack and its message is either "SVDA" or "OLVD"

Forgive me, as I'm not totally up to speed with live vs insulated. You are probably right



Date: 03/31/21 18:20
Re: Why is this causing a short?
Author: tehachapifan

If the frogs are live, here's how the short occurs. For the sake of clarity, observe the left rail on each main track as "red" and the right rail on each main track as "blue". If the points are set to crossover from one track to the other and taking into consideration that the points will conduct electricity into the crossover track and into the frog, can you see how "blue" will come into direct contact and short with "red"?

 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/21 18:21 by tehachapifan.



Date: 03/31/21 18:33
Re: Why is this causing a short?
Author: wabash2800

Try putting a gap or insulators in the track that runs btw the turnouts  Also, where are your power feeders? Are any on the frog end instead of the points end?

Victor A. Baird
http://www.erstwhilepublications.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/21 19:02 by wabash2800.



Date: 03/31/21 18:35
Re: Why is this causing a short?
Author: NDHolmes

It's Atlas, the frogs are dead unless separately powered.  Even then they're isolated from the rails.

Just looking at it in isolation, there's no particular reason it should be shorting unless there's some metal or some such I can't see.  However, without knowing where those tracks go, does it somehow form a reverse loop between the two tracks with the rest of the layout?



Date: 03/31/21 18:37
Re: Why is this causing a short?
Author: tehachapifan

Here's some diagrams I found online that explains what I was talking about a little clearer (I hope it's OK to post this link)...

Model Railway Digital Command Control (DCC) - Wiring a layout (newrailwaymodellers.co.uk)

If what is said above is true, that the Atlas frogs are insulated, then I'm not sure what's going on.

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/21 18:39 by tehachapifan.



Date: 03/31/21 18:51
Re: Why is this causing a short?
Author: funnelfan

I had a defective Atlas #6 switch that had a built-in short at the frog. That proved to be frustrating to find!

Ted Curphey
Cheney, WA



Date: 03/31/21 19:24
Re: Why is this causing a short?
Author: ChrisCampi

It's nearly impossible to really see what going on here, but what's that just above the left hand turnout on the right hand side? There's something just beyond the rail joiners coming out from between the rails and snaking over the right hand rail.



Date: 03/31/21 21:04
Re: Why is this causing a short?
Author: barrydraper

Very simple.  You forgot the gaps in both rails between the seitches.
 



Date: 03/31/21 21:11
Re: Why is this causing a short?
Author: MrMRL

barrydraper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Very simple.  You forgot the gaps in both rails
> between the s(w)itches.
>  

Exactly. Gap the crossover.

~ Mr. MRL



Date: 04/01/21 03:47
Re: Why is this causing a short?
Author: TEEKAY

Here's what this side of the layout looks like. Maybe I created a reverse loop?




Date: 04/01/21 03:49
Re: Why is this causing a short?
Author: TEEKAY

The others side (please excuse the mess) - the track ends after the bridge




Date: 04/01/21 04:13
Re: Why is this causing a short?
Author: ChrisCampi

Yep, you got yourself a reverse loop alright. Both your yards access the main creating a loop when you installed your crossover.



Date: 04/01/21 06:55
Re: Why is this causing a short?
Author: WrongWayMurphy

The track plan clears this up, yes you have created basically a reverse loop.

Basically the + is colliding with the -



Date: 04/01/21 11:50
Re: Why is this causing a short?
Author: TEEKAY

Any idea as where to start or some reasources that have helped you guys with this? I'm very confused by how to solve this from the internet



Date: 04/01/21 11:57
Re: Why is this causing a short?
Author: TomG

I've thinking this from the moment to read your description. Here is some reading for you.

Reversing Sections and Loops (dccwiki.com)



Date: 04/01/21 12:00
Re: Why is this causing a short?
Author: tehachapifan

If I'm looking at it right, the easiest solution might be to eliminate one of the switches off the mainline. Maybe the one on the lower left? Are the tracks in the middle serving industries? Maybe a different track arrangment would help here.
 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/21 12:01 by tehachapifan.



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