Passenger Trains > .

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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/21 23:53 by F40PHR231.

Chris: Your photographic accounts of the 231 Loco didn't reveal that you are such a talented
shutterbug on other subjects!
EXCELLENT!

I visited NYC as a lad with my folks to attend the 1964 Worlds Fair in Flushing Meadows.
Back then Times Square was looking run down and looking shabby father said.
Since then they created an improvement association and really cleaned it up.
You have captured NYC very well.. Those subway trains were something else, quite a people mover.
Your work is outstanding..

Cal-P

Thanks for the great photo tour.

The modern waiting room in photo 20 is part of the NJ Transit concourse on the south side of the NY Penn terminal. In general, NJ Transit trains leave from low numbered tracks on the south (downtown) end of the station.

LIRR trains leave from the high numbered tracks on the north (34th street) end, and Amtrak occupies the center tracks. NJ Transit, Amtrak, and LIRR will occasionally share tracks since most (but not all) tracks have access to both the East River and Hudson River tunnels

The subways underneath have platforms from both the 8th avenue and 7th avenue lines up into several different points of Penn Station, and there are ramps over to Broadway subways and PATH

What outstanding photos! Thanks for posting.

By the way, we here in Baltimore consider you a genuine hero!

Thank you for everything.

B&OB

Ah, memories! I spent five years in New York in the 1980s, working for the NYC Transit Authority, and got to know the system like the back of my hand. The "1" train diverges from the "2" and "3" at 96th Street, which is a four-track station. The two express tracks become the line to the Bronx, and the two local tracks become the line to upper Manhattan. At 103rd Street, a third center express track starts, and continues up to an underground yard at 137th Street. From time to time, rush-hour peak direction express service has been operated on this track.

North of 110th Street, the line briefly emerges from the tunnel to cross the Harlem Valley on a bridge, and 125th Street is an above-ground station. Farther north, the line is in a very deep rock tunnel under Inwood. The contractor who built the tunnel, Andrew Onderdonck, was later engaged to build Canadian Northern's line to Vancouver down the Thompson River, on the strength of his rock tunneling experience in upper Manhattan.

The shuttle tracks were part of the original main line of the subway, which in 1904 ran from City Hall north to Grand Central, across 42nd Street, and then turned north under Broadway. In 1910 the "Dual Contracts" were let, and a new line was built from Times Square south under 7th Avenue to South Ferry, and another under Lexington from Grand Central north into the Bronx. The segment under 42nd Street was stubbed off and made into the shuttle. It is now three tracks (one track has been removed). The north track still connects to the Broadway/7th Avenue line, and in fact there is a removable pedestrian bridge over the track to enable riders to get to the platform for the north track. The platform at Times Square for the middle track is actually built in the trackway for the southbound express track. The middle track ends at a bumper block at each end, and there is a crossover to the south track halfway between Times Square and Grand Central. The south track curves around to a connection with the Lexington Avenue line. I've walked the track, but never ridden it in a train.

The middle track was the site for a test of an automatically operated train (since it had bumper blocks at each end) in the 1960s. Disgruntled union workers eventually set the equipment afire, and the test was never repeated. The middle and north tracks are only used for service during peak hours. One train on the south track handles service most of the time.

Glad you enjoyed your experience.

"An" Oyster Bar in Grand Central Terminal??? "An"?!?!? Excuse me, but it is "THE" Oyster Bar at Grand Central - a New York institution and an absolutely fabulous place to dine if you're a seafood lover.

Of course just teasing a bit - I love your photo essay of places most New Yorkers barely toss a second glance at nowadays. I'm glad you had a great experience in NYC - there is absolutely nothing like it in all the world. I've lived in and around it just about all of my life, and it continues to astound me (sometimes in a bad way, but mostly in a good way) on a daily basis.

Y'all come back and see us anytime!!

Rob Benkovitz
New York, NY

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
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> The subways underneath have platforms from both
> the 8th avenue and 7th avenue lines up into
> several different points of Penn Station, and
> there are ramps over to Broadway subways and PATH

There used to be a direct free passageway between the 7th Avenue end of Penn Station and the 6th Avenue concourse where the PATH trains originate to New Jersey. This had a fairly long stretch that was not visible from either end and had a lot of crime issues. As a result it was closed off in the late 70's/early 80's. Part of the problem was there were several sets of doors into the "bargain basement" level of the Gimbels department store and when they went out of business they were obviously closed off adding to the desolation. Today you need to go up to street level and walk 33rd Street between the PATH and Penn Station. Yes you can still do this walk underground but it would require paying a subway fare and then walking between the 7th Avenue and 6th Avenue in the paid zone.

Tim

njmidland Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lackawanna484 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The subways underneath have platforms from both
> > the 8th avenue and 7th avenue lines up into
> > several different points of Penn Station, and
> > there are ramps over to Broadway subways and
> PATH
>
> There used to be a direct free passageway between
> the 7th Avenue end of Penn Station and the 6th
> Avenue concourse where the PATH trains originate
> to New Jersey. This had a fairly long stretch
> that was not visible from either end and had a lot
> of crime issues. As a result it was closed off in
> the late 70's/early 80's. Part of the problem was
> there were several sets of doors into the "bargain
> basement" level of the Gimbels department store
> and when they went out of business they were
> obviously closed off adding to the desolation.
> Today you need to go up to street level and walk
> 33rd Street between the PATH and Penn Station.
> Yes you can still do this walk underground but it
> would require paying a subway fare and then
> walking between the 7th Avenue and 6th Avenue in
> the paid zone.
>
> Tim

I remember that free passageway, it was a God-send in the rain. It always stank of urine and dripping water, and was a pretty desolate place

Chris----is it you that made the Drudge Report today re problems with MTA officers?

Chris-

Absolutely the greatest Trainorders picture presentation I have ever seen. You got everything including the blase expression of all New Yorkers as they ride THEIR subway system.

My grandfather first took me to New York City in 1929 and THE Oyster Bar was there then. Also we then rode the subway to the far reaches of IRT Brooklyn, New Lots Ave and Flatbush Ave.

By the way, the last time I was in New York City I took one of MY grandsons to see it all!

Bob Korach

Wonderful presentation.

New York City constantly takes it on the chin from millions of Americans who've never visited or lived there. It remains one of the greatest cities on earth, a place of endless fascinations, incomparable cultural activities, architecture, history, and food.

Plus the trains and transit are great.

Thanks for the tour.

Art House
Gettybsurg, Pa.

F40PHR231 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> 33) An oyster bar restaurant at the station.

That, of course, is THE Oyster Bar, among the grandest and most famous restaurants in Manhattan.
I always try to make it there when in New York, just as when in Boston, I try to go to the Union Oyster
House.

The transfer by subway from Grand Central Terminal to Penn Station has always SEEMED
complicated: take the Grand Central/Times Square Shuttle (there are only the two stops, Grand Central
and Times Square, so you can NOT make a mistake), then a 1, 2, or 3 train one stop to 34th St.

In years past when the upstate New York services and the Lake Shore departed from Grand Central,
there was a dedicated Amtrak shuttle bus between the two. I always found the subway to be faster;
and once you've done it once or twice, you'd be a veteran at it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/02/11 09:28 by GenePoon.

Chris, great photos. They brought back very pleasant memories for me of traveling east every couple of weeks and spending a total of many months in the City 30 years ago.

Obviously you didn't encounter the Ballmore attitude in your travels and photographic work in the City either.

Chris:

So glad to see you made it to the Big Apple, no doubt America's greatest city. The rail system there, both subway, els, and surface is just fascinating. There is never enough time to explore it all on one trip. Not to mention all the other attractions in NYC from Brooklyn Heights and a bridge walk, to Central Park, to Radio City, to Yankee Stadium, the museums, to even Rupert's deli! Manhattan is a great walking town too. There is so much to see and explore. I rented a bike for part of my trip around town.

If you ever can schedule a trip accordingly, try for a railfan subway ride. I've always wanted to ride a nostalgia train. Chuchubob who posts here frequently has shots of the Red Birds, et al. running on the various lines. Plus the transit museum in Brooklyn. When I was in NYC in 2002 that place was closed for remodeling or something. But it's high on my list of places to see eventually.

Some of the routes get quite interesting outside of Manhattan. The Dyre Ave. line in the Bronx is on a former interurban route. The A rain to the Rockaway stations runs on former Long Island Rail Road track from what I guess, across the marsh lands near JFK. Also, that same route, nonstop express from 125 St. to 59 St. is a great way to get somewhere fast.

What a way to move people, too. That Metrocard, with a fast swipe at turnstiles and on buses, is the way to go. In SF Bay Area they're still attempting to figure it out with the Clipper Card.

So much to see and do in NYC. And we didn't even mention MNCR, Amtrak along the Hudson, and myriad other lines that make the place a railfan's paradise and part of a great transportation system. I hope you get back again soon. Thanks for the great photos.

Chris...As a former Staten Islander who discovered the private NY Transit Museum in Brooklyn on an '03 return visit, I HIGHLY recommend a Nostalgia Ride in their refurbed R1/9 1930s IND subway cars. They run three nonstop trips every summer, next one goes July 23 to Coney Island (took this one--great fun!), probably from Midtown 57th/7th Avenue, over the Manhattan Bridge. On August 20, the summer's last run goes to Rockaway Beach with a vintage bus ride on arrival. All reserved seats, no-a/c open windows for authentic tunnel roar, is guaranteed to befuddle folks waiting at stations, staring as your train safely slows to ~20mph, air whistle shreaking!

Hats off to you, and good luck with your ACLU MTA suit against Baltimore's "finest", Sgt. Goon and his two helpers.
NYCTA, SI Ferry never bothered me taking pics.

Oh, BTW, terrific pics! NY is spectacular.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/02/11 23:55 by Abqfoamer.

Chris;

Great stuff. Photo #30 is a look at one of the most famous sights in the world, I think. Thanks for sharing.

Barry Stone
Edmonds, WA

Yes, absolutely love elegant GCT, especially since they cleaned it up during the Giuliani years, last visit in '05.
Great photo of the Freedom Tower, over 60-stories up, so far.

F40PHR231 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I bet people
> here 200 years ago couldn't imagine what this
> place would be like today (and to think what it
> will be like 200 years from now is unfathomable!)

You don't have to go that far back. I spent a week there in 1973 or 4, stayed in a non-longer-existent hotel on 44th half a block west of Broadway, and spent the week seeing just as many Broadway shows as I could fit into the days. I spent another 2 weeks there in 1986, staying at a no-longer-existent hotel on 45th half a block of Broadway, baby-sitting a customer down on Wall St with a balky computer. Didn't manage to devote as much time to seeing shows as I did the first time, but spent a lot more time on the subway from 42nd or GC down to Wall St, at all hours of the day and night.

From what I saw and experienced of the area in those two visits 10 years apart, I'm frankly surprised that the area even still exists, and that human beings still live there. It looked NOTHING like what your pictures show. Not the color of the walls, the signs, or the people, either in type or quantity.

There were almost no lights in any of the subway stations. ALL of the walls, and a fair amount of the ceiling, had been covered in graffiti, sometimes a quarter inch thick. The tile-work had been smashed (deliberately) in many cases. Large sections of stations were barred off with welded iron and chin-link walls, not that this prevented them being smashed down or cut thru so the derelicts could live on the other side and continue to spray graffiti everywhere.

The trains were almost solid graffiti, with an occasional bit of industrial-ugly green showing through here and there. Some of the stations had a completely incomprehensible automatic announcement system, though often most of the speakers had been ripped out of the ceilings.

There were no public restrooms anywhere in Manhattan in 1986. I remembered there had been some in the McD's on 7th in 1974, there was a wall and vending machines over the area in 1986. In GC the restrooms had all been first closed by welding a pair of large hasps to the edge of the door and frame and locking them. When these were broken off, they were closed by welding heavy chains across the doors. When these were ripped off it looked like they had tried to simply plate over the doors with steel plate. Those were generally bent and warped enough that the denizens could crawl in an out, but often one of the welded chains was still holding the plate over the doorway partially closed. There were no lights in the rest rooms, and generally not in the halls leading to them, but there were "people" back there; you could hear them and see them going in and out.

The trains during the day had a cop in every car. Didn't do any good, I several times heard someone scream that they were being robbed and see someone dash off the train just as it arrived at a station. At night there was generally no more than 2-3 cars open, so that the single cop could heard everyone to the front of the train and have a chance of protecting them. Many of the stations were closed at night for "safety", meaning you would have to walk on the streets for blocks to get to where you were going, if you got there.

There were posters everywhere around Times Square, stuck to lamp posts, doorways, and on the tables at fast food places, telling women how to handle their purses. Purses (according to the directions) needed over-shoulder CHAIN straps (leather and rope are easy to cut). You put it over your shoulder, put the purse under your arm, and clamped it there with your arm. You NEVER left it on a table or hung it from the back of your chair. However, purses were to be worn on the outside of your coat. Wearing it under could get you and the coat slashed while the guys were trying to get it. (No kidding, these were printed instructions all over the place.)

I was working at the NY Federal Reserve Bank. If you have never been in an FRB, let me just suggest they take physical security seriously. Still, in the restroom doors on the 10th floor, were mug shots of a guy that was noted for hiding in the restrooms of office buildings, and coming out, slitting the throat, and taking the purse or wallet of someone carelessly coming in to use the facility. This was despite being checked past the lobby guard, buzzed thru the door to the elevators, needing a key-card to run the elevator, and again to open the door on the floor, and even needing a key-card to get to the restrooms where this guy might be lurking. When I asked about the posters I was told he had been around Wall St for about 6 months, and would probably get himself caught eventually, but there had been at least two others before him, and there were some others now they didn't have pictures of. Nobody thought having murders wandering around the office building was very unusual.

Ah, the memories. Sure looks different today!

The MTA has spent an enormous amount of money on cleaning up and modernizing subway stations in Manhattan, and at some terminals in outer boroughs, like Stilwell Avenue and Archer Avenue, among others. Many stations, however, remain decrepit pieces of dripping water and filth.

One thing that has made an enormous impact on safety is the Guiliani-era emphasis on grabbing violators of very basic rules like spitting, urinating on the subway, turnstile jumping, etc. It gets a huge amount of criticism from some rights advocates, but they pull a lot of guns, knives, drugs, and warrant violators. The era of people shooting it out over perceived insults has largely disappeared from the subway.