Passenger Trains > FINE those freight railroads for delaying Amtrak!

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Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/14 16:20 by GenePoon.

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Fine the freight railroads all you want. Amtrak still will lose money and need more tax payers subsidies.

I'd be interested in seeing how many NJ Transit trains are delayed by Amtrak dispatching. Do you suppose they could take Amtrak to the FRA etc for delay of trains?

Amtrak has been busy working on the railroad in the past few months, at least in NJ. The concrete ties on track 4 have been swapped out, which was a long process. The high speed improvements in Plainsboro to MIDWAY are now underway, etc. Track 3 (the usual westbound express) is being used as a true bi-directional track, which is unusual. NJ Transit is getting beat up pretty hard, but there should be a better railroad when all of this is done.

As a Californian, I remain confused. The chart indicates declining on time performance on trains running on the NE corridor. There is no freight traffic to delay Amtrak on the corridor, right? Am I missing something?

Norm

Norman Orfall
Helendale, CA
TIOGA PASS, a private railcar

> Am I missing something?
>
> Norm


I think sarcasm, perhaps?
:)
Mike

Too be fair, is not much of that delay from track work and the downward trend is temporary?

More garbage. This doesnt reflect the fact that some of the delay is due to late arriving equipment as a result of poor freight RR dispatching.

To; Gene Poon


Again it's my pleasure to debunk this anti-Corridor spin. And, it's quite easy to do as Amtrak publishes monthly data on all the causes for delays on the Corridor.

For those interested, check out Amtrak's monthly reports; there you can find out all you ever wanted to know about NEC delays. You don't need Mr. Poon to "spin" it for you.

Acela's O.T. performance is usually in the 90% range; but not during snow storms; or when Metro North gets in the way; or when MARC pulls down the catinery; or a trespasser gets himself killed, etc., etc.

On the NEC there is a category of delay called "passenger train interference". This refers to delay caused to Amtrak trains by the Commuter Railroads. Metro North, for example, causes a lot of delays.

So, on the NEC, it's not the Freights; but Commuter operators like Metro North who are deserving of fines.

Joe

PS: the Supreme Court has agreed to take up the Amtrak delay case; and will decide if Amtrak has the right to financial damages for delays caused by host railroad. Personally, I hope the Court expands this to include delays caused by Metro North and other Commuter operators.
(The DOT is bringing the case on behalf of Amtrak; The Assn.of American Railroads will be defending on behalf of the Freights).

KV1guy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> More garbage. This doesnt reflect the fact that
> some of the delay is due to late arriving
> equipment as a result of poor freight RR
> dispatching.

I've love to hear about how all of that Acela equipment (the service which seems to be doing worst) arrives late due to nonexistent freight trackage they use...

floridajoe2001 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Acela's O.T. performance is usually in the 90%
> range; but not during snow storms; or when Metro
> North gets in the way; or when MARC pulls down the
> catinery; or a trespasser gets himself killed,
> etc., etc.

Oh, I get it. When things like that, and things like
trackwork, floods, stuck bridges, signal issues, etc.
happen on Amtrak's own railroad, that's perfectly
understandable and OK.

But if anything like that happens on one of Amtrak's
host railroads and results in delays to Amtrak, it's
an outrage and something must be done right now to
make those greedy host railroads pay.

Just wondering who you want to fine for floods,
washouts, snowstorms, fires, etc. Gotta be someone's
fault. Unless they happen on the NEC. And as we all
know so well, Amtrak has never pulled down a chunk
of catenary or hit a trespasser on the NEC; only M-N
or MARC or NJT would dare do things like that.

Nice double standard there.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/14 20:12 by Realist.

Is this measuring endpoints exclusively?
If so, how much of this is related to closures of MNRR due to bridge or dispatching failure?
Where is the time lost? Those stats should be available, as this is a little generic.

rbmn5022 Wrote :
------ ---- ---------------------------------------------
> KV1guy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > More garbage. This doesnt reflect the fact
> that
> > some of the delay is due to late arriving
> > equipment as a result of poor freight RR
> > dispatching.
>
> I've love to hear about how all of that Acela
> equipment (the service which seems to be doing
> worst) arrives late due to nonexistent freight
> trackage they use...


try paYing attention to what I said. I said SOME of the delay.

Posted from Android

KV1guy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> try paYing attention to what I said. I said SOME
> of the delay.

Don't the LDT trains on the NEC run separately (unlike during the Pennsy days when a train might consist of a couple of LDT through connections, plus the regional train)? I'm wondering if the LDT train delays on the NEC are carried with the LDT train delay? Regardless the LDTs are a fraction of the NEC business.

KV1guy, you might need to reconsider your point.

How come blaming MetroNorth for delays to Amtrak on the MN section of the NEC is OK, yet blaming Amtrak for delays to NJ Transit on the Amtrak dispatched section is off limits?

Is this a matter of not wanting to disturb the high paying Acela passengers?

KV1guy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> More garbage. This doesnt reflect the fact that
> some of the delay is due to late arriving
> equipment as a result of poor freight RR
> dispatching.
I can see KV1's point. As an example, the Regional trains that originate at Newport News and Richmond often get to Washington late because of CSX-related delays (trackwork, freight interference, heat orders in the afternoon and signal problems). If a high profile train such as #94 or #174 gets into WAS late enough to leave WAS behind schedule, the delays along the NEC typically spiral due to the train being out of its slot. Especially during the week, what often happens to the late departing regional from WAS is that it will lose time enroute being overtaken by an Acela, following SEPTA trains into Trenton, NJT trains into Metro Park, following Metro-North commuter trains on their New Haven Line, and even following an MBTA commuter train from Providence. Of course, the same kind of spiralling delays can affect a regional that has left WAS or NY on time, but incurred an enroute delay from equipment issues.
Back to the host roads - there are always going to be issues with trackwork; however with good negotiations between Amtrak and the host road and careful planning, the delays can be kept to a minimum. I don't think we've seen this type of cooperation in many years - particularly in Upstate NY and over the RF&P.
Andy

To: Realist

If you would read Amtrak's monthly reports (on their website); it would be easier to understand, and less confusing, when the subject of "Delay" is discussed. There are SO MANY causes for delays; and Amtrak does a good job of placing all of them into different "categories"

The delays you refer to (track work; floods; etc.) are put in a category call "all other".

But, we have been talking about the two MAJOR causes of host railroad caused delay which Amtrak categorizes as "freight train interference" and "slow orders". And you must admit; the Freights have been handling Amtrak's Western LD trains miserably all Summer.

On the NEC; there are also all kinds of delays; and Amtrak likewise puts them into categories--one of which is "passenger train interference" from commuter trains; and figures on Metro North are specifically given.

A big cause of delay on the NEC is "passenger holds". But it's stupid to "blame" Amtrak for this because such delays are Customer oriented. In other words; an acceptable reason for delay.

So, don't swallow the spin of the naysayers who preach Amtrak has a double standard; or cares only about the NEC. Amtrak publishes NEC delays and what is causing them, just a fully as they do for the Freight Railroads. Check it out sometime.

Joe



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/14 07:01 by floridajoe2001.

Realist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> floridajoe2001 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Acela's O.T. performance is usually in the 90%
> > range; but not during snow storms; or when
> Metro
> > North gets in the way; or when MARC pulls down
> the
> > catinery; or a trespasser gets himself killed,
> > etc., etc.
>
> Oh, I get it. When things like that, and things
> like
> trackwork, floods, stuck bridges, signal issues,
> etc.
> happen on Amtrak's own railroad, that's perfectly
>
> understandable and OK.
>
> But if anything like that happens on one of
> Amtrak's
> host railroads and results in delays to Amtrak,
> it's
> an outrage and something must be done right now
> to
> make those greedy host railroads pay.
>
> Just wondering who you want to fine for floods,
> washouts, snowstorms, fires, etc. Gotta be
> someone's
> fault. Unless they happen on the NEC. And as we
> all
> know so well, Amtrak has never pulled down a
> chunk
> of catenary or hit a trespasser on the NEC; only
> M-N
> or MARC or NJT would dare do things like that.
>
> Nice double standard there.

You must be new here,Realist. Joe has a very consistent standard: Amtrak = good All others = not good

Keystones run on 100% Amtrak, they have only run on time 82% YTD.
My limited observations over the last year suggest some of the reasons are:
1. Engine (AEM-7) failures
3. Electric traction power system failures west of PAOLI
4. Trackwork in New Jersey
5. Hold for Acelas to runaround
2. SEPTA interference (for example, yesterday morning an inbound SEPTA train sat on Track 1 past Downingtown for almost an hour acct. mechanical problems with the engine.)

floridajoe2001 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To: Realist
>
> So, don't swallow the spin of the naysayers who
> preach Amtrak has a double standard; or cares only
> about the NEC. Amtrak publishes NEC delays and
> what is causing them, just a fully as they do for
> the Freight Railroads. Check it out sometime.
>
> Joe

IMO, you have the double standard, not Amtrak, and that
was the point of my post.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How come blaming MetroNorth for delays to Amtrak
> on the MN section of the NEC is OK, yet blaming
> Amtrak for delays to NJ Transit on the Amtrak
> dispatched section is off limits?
>
> Is this a matter of not wanting to disturb the
> high paying Acela passengers?

OTP is OTP. Amtrak DSing can cause all kinds of havoc on Transit, but I'd think it's less likely. Does anyone have the stats?