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Passenger Trains > C&NW ex-Pullman Business Cars
Date: 05/17/15 16:37
C&NW ex-Pullman Business Cars
In my continuing project to track down surviving heavyweight Pullmans, no matter what the current configuration is, I am looking for the current whereabouts of 1 of 6 C&NW business cars rebuilt from Pullmans:
#402 Iowa, which was formerly PC #1, and before that, SOU #2. Originally built in August 1930 by Pullman in Lot #6371 as the Van Cortlandt, a Plan #3987 baggage-buffet club-smoker-barber shop, 1 of 4 such cars built in that Lot for the 20th Century Limited, all with Van-series names. These were the only cars built to Plan #3987, and all were sold in August 1945. The Van Cortlandt went to SOU for conversion to the #2, and the other 3 cars were sold to the SAL and reconfigured to baggage-dormitories #185-#187. I have not been able to find any information on when C&NW retired the #402 Iowa, or who it was sold to. Any information on this car's current status or whereabouts would be very helpful! Several of these C&NW business car were initially just numbered, and received names at later dates; I don't know when the name Iowa was applied to the #402. Did this car ever have an #800xxx-series number? Also, does anyone know when SOU sold this car to PC, or when PC sold it to C&NW? Thanks in advance!
Besides the #402 Iowa, the other 5 business cars which were rebuilt from Pullmans were:
#403 (2nd) Minnesota. Built in 1925 in Lot #4845 as the Thompson, a Plan #3410 12 section-1 drawing room (12S-1DR) sleeper, 1 of 225 such cars built in that Lot. 10 of these 225 cars, including the Thompson, were built for GN's Oriental Limited, however, none were acquired by GN at the 12/31/1948 divestiture. Instead, the Thompson was sold to CGW, where it operated under Pullman lease until May 1950. In 1953, it was outshopped as business car #100, and became C&NW property in the 1968 merger. In my notes, I have it as initially renumbered as C&NW #401, but I am still looking for confirmation that this was the case. In 1981, it was renumbered as #403 (2nd), and in 1985 was named Minnesota. After the merger with UP in 1995, it was sold in 1996 to the North Carolina DOT as RNCX #400000 (1st), and was planned to be renamed Governor John Motey Morehead, which at this time I don't think was ever applied. The car remained in faded C&NW colors until sold in 2006 to private ownership as PPCX #29/#800029, who renamed it the Dearing, with Georgia RR dark blue paint and lettering. Can anyone confirm that the CGW #100 was initially renumbered to C&NW #401 before being renumbered #403 (2nd)? Thanks in advance!
#401 (2nd) Wyoming. Built in 1925 in Lot #4923 as the Monte Viso, a Plan #3521A 10 section (10S) sleeper-lounge observation (open platform), 1 of 15 such cars built in that Lot, all with Monte-series names. In early 1926, 4 of these cars, including the Monte Viso, were renamed to the Capitol-series for reassignment to the Capitol Limited; the Monte Viso was renamed Capitol Road. The Capitol Road was sold to C&NW in December 1948, but several weeks before the divestiture, on December 7th. It was rebuilt as the #400 (1st), and was later renumbered to #401 (2nd). When named Wyoming, the #401 was apparently removed (to vacate that number for the car listed below, so circa 1982), and the car was later retired and sold to private ownership as the Carolyn. Last year, the Carolyn was listed for sale on Ozark Mountain Railcar, and was acquired by the Valley RR in Connecticut as VRRX #400, and as of mid April was in transit (photographed at Cumberland, MD). It arrived at Essex, CT, on May 8th, via Willard, OH. Does anyone have information on when this car was renumbered from #400 (1st) to #401 (2nd), or when C&NW sold it to private ownership? Also, does anyone know the #800xxx-series number for this car? Thanks in advance!
#401 (3rd) Chicago. Built in 1926 in Lot #4998 as the Mt. Thielsen, a Plan #3521A 10S sleeper-lounge observation (open platform), 1 of 30 such cars built in that Lot, all with Mt.-series names. 8 of these cars were built for assignment on AT&SF trains, the other 12 were assigned to the general service pool, including the Mt. Thielsen. At the 12/31/1948 divestiture, 6 of the Lot #4998 cars were sold to the L&N and leased to Pullman. 3 had been renamed in August 1938 for assignment to the Pan-American as the Alabama, Kentucky, and Tennessee; in 1954, these cars were rebuilt to tavern lounges #3050-#3052 with Club suffixes added to the state names. The other 3 cars, including the Mt. Thielsen, were withdrawn from lease and rebuilt to business cars. The first of these was the Mt. Thielsen, which was withdrawn in April 1949 and rebuilt to #375. The other 2 cars were both withdrawn in January 1950: the Mt. Tom was rebuilt to #364 and the Mt. Hoffman was rebuilt to #365. In 1982, L&N sold the #375 to C&NW, and it was renumbered to #401 (3rd). Like the #403 (2nd), a name was applied to the #401 (3rd) in 1985: Chicago. After the merger with UP in 1995, it was sold in 1998 to the Fleming Company, and was later owned by the Webb Family and used in excursion/special event service over the Kansas & Oklahoma/South Kansas & Oklahoma roads. The car is now privately owned and located in Corpus Christi, TX. Does this car have an #800xxx-series number? Thanks in advance.
#405 Flambeau. Built in 1926 in Lot #6015 as the Louis Frontenac, a Plan #3959 3 compartment-2 drawing room (3C-2DR) sleeper-lounge observation (open platform), 1 of 10 such cars built in that Lot, all of which were assigned to the general service pool. The Louis Frontenac remained in Pullman ownership until sold to the SP in March 1955, which converted it to business car #117, the Tucson (2nd). SP sold the car to C&NW in 1987, and it was renumbered to #405 Flambeau. It was later retired and sold to private ownership as #800557 and used in excursion service on the Wisconsin Great Northern in Spooner, WI. It was later renumbered from #405 to RPCX #1, and was photographed in various locations in 2007-2008. In my notes, I have it as relocated to Dallas in 2006, although I don't know if the car is actually based there or not. Does anyone know when C&NW sold this car, or where it is currently located? Also, does this car have an #800xxx-series number? Thanks in advance!
#440. Built in 1929 in Lot #6301 as the Minnekahda Club, a Plan #3995 4 single bedroom-2 compartment-1 drawing room (4SB-2C-1DR) sleeper-lounge, 1 of 4 such cars built in that Lot, all with Club-series names, and the only cars built to Plan #3995. 2 of these cars, the Minnekahda Club and the Minnesota Club, were built for the Blackhawk; the other 2 cars were built for the Night Hawk. When built, the single bedrooms had stationary beds, instead of the more typical convertible sofas. In May 1933, the Minnesota Club was changed to Plan #3995A, with the stationary beds replaced by convertible sofas. In May 1935, both the Minnesota Club and the Minnekahda Club were modified to Plan #3995B, with 2 of the single bedrooms changed to double bedrooms (2SB-2DB-2C-1DR). With this modification, the stationary beds in the 2 remaining single bedrooms of the Minnekahda Club were replaced by convertible sofas, and the spelling was changed to Minikahda Club. In early 1938, the 2 other cars were modified to Plan #3995C, again with 2 of the single bedrooms changed to double bedrooms, but apparently unlike Plan #3995B, the stationary beds in the 2 remaining single bedrooms on these cars were not replaced by convertible sofas. At the 12/31/1948 divestiture, the Minikahda Club and the Minnesota Club were sold to the New Haven as #775 and #776 respectively. Both cars were withheld from Pullman lease in February 1955, with the Minikahda Club reassigned as a crew dormitory and renumbered to #100, without any changes to the configuration. In 1968, New Haven sold the #100 to Genesee & Wyoming as #1 Edward I. In 1980, G&W sold the car to C&NW, which rebuilt it to a business car as #404, and in 1982 it was reassigned to the mechanical department and renumbered to #440. In 1983, C&NW donated the #440 to the Mid-Continent RY Museum in North Freedom, WI, which used the #440 as the observation car on #1385 excursions, with the car named Philip R. Hastings. Did this car ever have an #800xxx-series number? Thanks in advance!
Information on these cars comes from:
"The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)
"Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)
Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm
Information on the #404/#440 also came from: http://www.midcontinent.org/equipment-roster/steel-passenger-cars/chicago-north-western-440/
For those who follow the "Surviving Pullman" thread over on Railway Preservation News, the line item numbers for these 6 cars are:
#402 Iowa: #280
#403 (2nd) Minnesota: #93
#401 (2nd) Wyoming: #346
#401 (3rd) Chicago: #281
#405 Flambeau: #107
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.
Date: 05/17/15 19:48
Re: C&NW ex-Pullman Business Cars
Try GLWX 402 Great Lakes Western ran around (Kewaunee, WI) Wisconsin back in 1993.
Date: 05/18/15 02:24
Re: C&NW ex-Pullman Business Cars
Thanks, cozephyr, for the lead!
One mystery always leads to another! Looking at photos available online, it looks like GLW owned another ex-C&NW business car, the #404 (2nd) Wisconsin. Obviously not the same car donated to MCRM in 1983, the #404 (1st)/#440. I don't have any info on the #404 (2nd) Wisconsin: does anybody know this car's history, and where it might be today? Thanks in advance!
GLW also owned 2 ex-Amtrak, nee-C&NW 96 seat gallery coaches: #700 (Amtrak #9611/#9621) and #703 (#9614/#9624), built in 1958 by P-S in Lot #W6996* to Plan #DP-1-60346. Both eventually went to Nashville as parts sources and were scrapped. Besides the C&NW business and gallery cars, there was also ex-Amtrak short baggage #1357, built in 1953 by StLCC in Lot #1773 as US Army kitchen #89624. The #1357 was either leased or acquired from DL&W Car Company.
*The "W" prefix denotes that these cars were manufactured at Pullman's former Osgood-Bradley plant in Worcester, MA.