Passenger Trains > Amtrak Then vs. Now

With all of the recent discussion about Amtrak's latest financial crisis, I began to wonder how today's Amtrak compares with one of several years ago. There are a number of people on this board who seem to have easy access to Amtrak's ridership and financials (I am too lazy to try to find them). So here goes. Let's use The Coast Starlight as an example. Years ago under Brian Rosenwald, that was arguably Amtrak's finest LD train. Not only did you have the Parlour Car, but also fresh baked cookies, welcome aboard baskets, flowers, "thanks for riding" gifts, etc., etc. for sleeping car passengers. There was an on board entertainer for the whole train. There was also a LAX-OAK set out coach run a lot for the in state CA traffic. Today's version is obviously a bit lighter on all of that stuff and then some. My question is this: how did the ridership and financials of the train in Brian's years compare to what we have had over the last several? We all have to take Amtrak's accounting with a grain of salt, but I would be really curious to see what numbers they have assigned to that train over the years, and if any even somewhat subjective conclusions can be had on how eliminating all of the small stuff has affected the train's performance budget wise. Looking forward to what knowledgeable input any of you may have.

well, the middle class has DECREASED and with it their spending.  more people earning less money to spend on big ticket items and traveling..........

66



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/16 13:25 by goneon66.

irhoghead Wrote:
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> With all of the recent discussion about Amtrak's
> latest financial crisis,


I don't think this is anything new - Amtrak is always in a financial crisis - especially this time of year. The smoke screen of Boardman's "Cash Position" letter is, in my professional opinion, inappropriate to blast out to all employees. He's trying to use a "transparency" angle, but Amtrak picks and choses often as to what they are going to be transparent on........

 

The Starlight had ridership over 600,000 in 1988 and 1991 and was over 500,000 in the late 1970's, much of the 1980's and into the early 1990's,and then again in 1999-2001.

Since then, not so great.  It went as low as 330,000 in 2005, and has since rebounded to around 450-480,000, which is where it was before the Pacific Parlor was introduced in the mid-1990's.  It may be in part from shedding some short distance ridership to the Surfliners and Capitol Corridor and Cascades.

Revenue was $25 million out of $950 million total in the mid-1990's and is $41 million out of $2.185 billion today.  Attributed costs were $65 million out of $1.8 billion in 1995 and are $90 million out of $2.7 billion today.

Understand that the Coast Starlight shares ridership these days.
In the 70's & 80's it was the ONLY rail service between LA and Portland except a bit of overlap with the San Joaquin, Zephyr, and, for a short time, the SofCA.
Today the route is shared with MetroLink, SurfLiners, Capitols, Cascades. and Sounders.
11&14 of today represents only a fraction of overall ridership that is actually much higher on the route.
SR

The Coast Starlight's short-distance traffic seems to account for the decrease as you have the San Diegan-Pacific Surfliner launch and expansion in 2000, the Cascade trains rising in frequency, Amtrak California getting a HUGE boost, and then add to all that the commuter services ranging from the Sounder in Seattle to the Coaster and Metrolink in San Diego/LA.

The Starlight can STILL fill three sleepers and a dorm car during peak season. I've actually seen pictures of the Coast Starlight with as many has six coaches tacked on to the back heading up the California coast. Had to be late 80-s. So the front of the train (sleepers) stay steady and the rear (coaches) become less in number. Draw your own conclusions. Actually, I think a third sleeper has been ADDED to the Coast Starlight to meet demand and the crew car has been opened up to accept revenue passengers. So this means you got more people travelling longer disances.

Correct- in the 80's there were only 2 sleepers and no Dorm/Sleeper.
I worked the trains a couple of times with 8 coaches!
SR

jp1822 Wrote:
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> The Starlight can STILL fill three sleepers and a
> dorm car during peak season. I've actually seen
> pictures of the Coast Starlight with as many has
> six coaches tacked on to the back heading up the
> California coast. Had to be late 80-s. So the
> front of the train (sleepers) stay steady and the
> rear (coaches) become less in number. Draw your
> own conclusions. Actually, I think a third sleeper
> has been ADDED to the Coast Starlight to meet
> demand and the crew car has been opened up to
> accept revenue passengers. So this means you got
> more people travelling longer disances.

Since people are interested:

1978 (Heritage)
2 Sleepers 10-6
1 Sleeper 11 bedrooms
2 Diners
1 Big Dome Lounge
8 Coaches
1 Dome Coach

1981 (Superliner)
2 Sleepers
1 Diner
1 Lounge
5 Coaches
1 Coach/Dorm

1985 and 1990
2 Sleepers
1 Diner
1 Lounge
6 Coaches
1 Coach/Dorm

2012
1 Dorm (4 rooms for revenue sale)
3 Sleepers
2 Lounges
1 Diner
4 Coaches

Definitely a shift in rider mix to many more sleeper patrons and fewer in coach.

Current ridership is 77,000 in sleeper and 385,000 in coach.  Compare to 1975, when it was 26,000 in sleeper and 349,000 in coach.  That's pretty big support for Rosenwald's initiative.

The long Chrismas consists I worked in the late 80's:
3 F40's
baggage
Coach/Dodm (ATSF)
3 Sleepers
Diner
Sightseer Cafe
4 Coaches
Diner/Lounge (ATSF)
4 Coaches

I made two extra-board trips on this monster (LSA on the Diner/Lounge).  It was decided this thing was way too big and it only ran the one season.
 

During a period that I cannot place dates,  Cut off coaches would operate LA-Oakland, that would include an snack bar coach. 

Again prior to more local trains and higher airliine fares.

As one looks at loadings, remember the times that it would be many hours late.  Many folks never came back.
Course when it operated 3x a week, remember the Christmas Holiday, that a coach only special would Oakland--LA, with a batch of ex  SAL coaches and a SAL round end observation car.

Hmmmm...
If you're talking Superliner era, the 35000 Snack/Coach (Panic Box) did not exist until about 1986, and at first were only used in the Summer.  When the lower level snack bar was staffed it was always for the full LAX-SEA-LAX trip and always as the 1114 or 1414 car.. 

There were LAX-OAK-LAX drop off cars in the mid 80's, and the were usually former ATSF coaches.  If you saw a 35000 dropped in OAK it was being used as a coach only and the snack section of the car wasn't being used.

There was a Christmas season (1884-85?) when a seperate LAX-OAK-LAX train was run, but it was all Amfleet.

The SAL obs cars ran on the rear of the pre-SuperLiner trains on days when the train was LAX-OAK-LAX (all coach) only.  On LAX-SEA-LAX days it was replaced by sleepers in the rear.
SR

Well, I remember when Lynn removed the snack-bar coaches from the LA-OAK Starlight as cost saving. Remember service levels and dates are flexable, even changed from the planed/posted.

You are correct on the SAL obs on the LAX-OAK trains, however doing the christmas that I worked as a volunteer at LAUPT station services, the ADD stub train could also carred SAL observations.

that 1978  version of the Starlight was a monster, no wonder they always had 3 SDP40Fs for power until the F40s showed up!