Passenger Trains > Hudson River Tunnel Railway concrete is crumbling

http://wwlp.com/2016/05/27/hudson-river-tunnel-railway-concrete-crumbling/ 

Joe Boardman, Amtrak CEO, said, “This salt is eating away at the concrete it’s eating away at the rails its eating away at the cables that go through here for power.”Boardman calls it one of the most glaring examples of aging railroad infrastructure in the United States. He goes on to say, “This is the busiest corridor in the western hemisphere and we got here because we didn’t maintain our infrastructure.”

Anthony Foxx, Secretary of Transportation, said, “You want to be able to show the benefit of the dollar you invested. I think members of congress struggle because they actually require longer than a political term to take root.”

 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/16 02:47 by ats90mph.

A catastrophic failure might not even be enough to get funding.

This is not new news. Amtrak should have fought hard to get replacement tunnels in the wake of SuperStorm Sandy. But they didn't. That was a catastrophic event to the region with VERY limited rail service. Amtrak slapped another band aid on and kept it going. Boardman should have also been across the street begging lawmakers for money on new tunnels. 

And  when the tunnels do fail - Hoboken better be prepared!!!! But it isn't......

You could have a failure that is not catastrophic, but could cause the whole thing to be condemned. The day that the tunnels can no longer be used might be sooner than we think.

jp1822 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Amtrak slapped another band aid on
> and kept it going. Boardman should have also been
> across the street begging lawmakers for money on
> new tunnels. 
>

Congress resists those who have been "begging" for adequate funding plan to pay for highways and transit.  Can you explain why one should believe Congress would be any more receptive to "begging" from Boardman?

Maybe if he put a cardboardman sign, with a plea for $, around his neck and sat by one of the portals.......

jp1822 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is not new news. Amtrak should have fought
> hard to get replacement tunnels in the wake of
> SuperStorm Sandy. But they didn't. That was a
> catastrophic event to the region with VERY limited
> rail service. Amtrak slapped another band aid on
> and kept it going. Boardman should have also been
> across the street begging lawmakers for money on
> new tunnels. 
>
> And  when the tunnels do fail - Hoboken better be
> prepared!!!! But it isn't......

That is EXACTLY what Amtrak is doing!

If Congress can't pass a bill to stop Zika, it sure as heck won't fund Amtrak infrastructure.

the BS gets deeper ever day.  I need a D9 Cat to scoop it out of the way.

Perhaps I'm remembering wrong, but wasn't it a plan to replace this tunnel that N.J. Chris Christie torpedoed once he got into office?  Sent the money back to Washington in a grandstanding fashion to show how fiscally responsible he supposedly is?  Or was that another tunnel project?

Good luck trying to get the funding reapproved now.  At this point, it's fortunate that congress doesn't have to vote to approve bathroom breaks during session.  Depends couldn't make enough adult diapers to handle THAT mess!

Mary McPherson
Dongola, IL
Diverging Clear Productions

MaryMcPherson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Perhaps I'm remembering wrong, but wasn't it a
> plan to replace this tunnel that N.J. Chris
> Christie torpedoed once he got into office?  Sent
> the money back to Washington in a grandstanding
> fashion to show how fiscally responsible he
> supposedly is?  Or was that another tunnel
> project?

​The tunnels which Christie vetoed would have dead-ended in a stub terminal in Manhattan.

ts1457 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MaryMcPherson Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Perhaps I'm remembering wrong, but wasn't it a
> > plan to replace this tunnel that N.J. Chris
> > Christie torpedoed once he got into office?
>  Sent
> > the money back to Washington in a grandstanding
> > fashion to show how fiscally responsible he
> > supposedly is?  Or was that another tunnel
> > project?
>
> ​The tunnels which Christie vetoed would have
> dead-ended in a stub terminal in Manhattan.

Correct. Other than reduce some of the volume through the ancient tunnels, they would not have had an impact on replacing the old tunnels.

But it's a meme of the left that he "killed" the tunnel repairs, and nobody wants to miss that chance.  Just like the previous NJT + Amtrak plan to build the TransHudson Tunnel in 1993.  NJT was willing to pay half if it had half ownership, Amtrak demanded full control, and that opportunity passed. But that doesn't fit the narrative, so it is ignored.

Lots of good opportunties have been missed over the years.

Infrastructure loses out to social program "emergencies" every time. 
And a general overseas war every 5 years that the US ultimately has to make apology for a generation or two later doesn't help.

New York State and New Jersey are fully capable of handling their own infrastructure needs without whining to the federal government.
New York is second to only California as the wealthiest state in the Union. 
Between the two of them, New York and New Jersey, there are more resources at their disposal than 30 "red states" combined.  

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/16 08:55 by NewRiverGeorge.

NewRiverGeorge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Infrastructure loses out to social program
> "emergencies" every time. 
> And a general overseas war every 5 years that the
> US ultimately has to make apology for a generation
> or two later doesn't help.
>
> New York State and New Jersey are fully capable of
> handling their own infrastructure needs without
> whining to the federal government.
> New York is second to only California as the
> wealthiest state in the Union. 
> Between the two of them, New York and New
> Jersey, there are more resources at their
> disposal than 30 "red states" combined.  
>
>  

Although I have no sympathy for it, the State of NJ created their own mess and has a backlog of infrastructure that is absolutely daunting. 

​< The tunnels which Christie vetoed would have dead-ended in a stub terminal in Manhattan. >

And therefore of no use to anyone except NJT

< New York State and New Jersey are fully capable of handling their own infrastructure needs without whining to the federal government. New York is second to only California as the wealthiest state in the Union. Between the two of them, New York and New Jersey, there are more resources at their disposal than 30 "red states" combined.   >

You arguments are totally irrelevant and ignorant.

Utah got 80% federal funding for their rail system, which has little impact beyond anyone not living in the Provo-Ogden area.
NY/NJ is INTERSTATE commerce, a constitutional FEDERAL responsibility. Cessation of rail service between the two would have a major impact on the national economy, Amtrak, and NJT. Some people having rich estates in the suburbs is not a valid excuse to deny federal funding for the entire area. FTA is NOT intended to be a welfare service for poor states, which are generally RED states. NY & NJ are also DONOR states to the federal government. Do remember that when we next bail out the highway trust fund, and whose money it is.

Since Sandy brought this problem to a head, consider it disaster assistance, or perhaps we should not longer fund such in those poor Red states when they get hit by tornadoes and flooding.

< Congress resists those who have been "begging" for adequate funding plan to pay for highways and transit.  Can you explain why one should believe Congress would be any more receptive to "begging" from Boardman? >

Exactly. Since the federal budget does not have a capital budget, the Tea Party-run Congress is too stupid to distinguish between capital investment and ongoing spending, in the case of Hudson River tunnel, and two of the East River tunnels, which are actually in worse shape, a 100 year investment.  The NY-MTA already went through a yearlong closure with one pair of Sandy-damaged subway tunnels, and will embark on another pair in 2019.

 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/16 10:08 by joemvcnj.

Do not shoot the messenger or call the messenger nasty names.

Congress is increasingly comprised of red state zealots from "safe" gerrymandered electoral districts.  They are elected with huge untracable super-pac contributions from those who usually have only one or two negative, often social, agenda items.   Ifrastructure problems are not among the issues currently getting the attention of the super pacs.

[Interestingly, it's the red states that generally receive more back from the federal government than they put in, so their reps still have a certain "bring home the bacon" mentality. But those in Congress now do not share "federal" responsibilities as their predecessors once did.  They are "for it" until such time as it comes time to pay for it, then they are silent.]

One of the general philosophical tenets these folks share, at least when they open their mouths to talk,  is vocal opposition to "big government" and "government spending." 

Whether they act that way in private is another question, as some of the most vocal of this crowd have brought us huge budget deficits, and expensive new agencies such as the enlarged intelligence-gathering apparatus and the TSA.  But nevertheless, you are not going to be able to count on them to solve local problems, particularly in blue coastal states.  

Congress is not going to be the solution to the tunnel problem.  The rest of the country and their representatives do not share the pain. 

But, look at it on the bright side, our next president will be a New Yorker.  Whether he or she gets any traction in Congress depends a lot on how the super pac's influence the congressional elections in November.

The new president could just pass the hat amongst a few well-heeled friends, and fund the tunnels out of their own pockets if they so desired.

Heck, one possible new president claims to have enough personal wealth that he could fund it himself.


 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/16 10:47 by NewRiverGeorge.

MaryMcPherson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Perhaps I'm remembering wrong, but wasn't it a
> plan to replace this tunnel that N.J. Chris
> Christie torpedoed once he got into office?  Sent
> the money back to Washington in a grandstanding
> fashion to show how fiscally responsible he
> supposedly is?  Or was that another tunnel
> project?


IIRC  The money went to prop up the Highway Fund so he didn't have to raise the gas tax.  The rebuilding of the Pulaski Skyway for auto's instead of Hudson River Tunnels for trains.

Brian

choodude Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MaryMcPherson Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Perhaps I'm remembering wrong, but wasn't it a
> > plan to replace this tunnel that N.J. Chris
> > Christie torpedoed once he got into office?
>  Sent
> > the money back to Washington in a grandstanding
> > fashion to show how fiscally responsible he
> > supposedly is?  Or was that another tunnel
> > project?
>
>
> IIRC  The money went to prop up the Highway Fund
> so he didn't have to raise the gas tax.  The
> rebuilding of the Pulaski Skyway for auto's
> instead of Hudson River Tunnels for trains.
>
> Brian

There was also a substantial contribution from the NJ Turnpike Authority, and from the Port Authority.  Both of which are partly controlled by the governor.   The alliance between the governor and the state senate president / iron workers president made the funding possible.  Sweeney needed to get the trades something, and Christie gave him the Pulaski work. Sweeney agreed not to oppose Christie in his re-election.

In NJ, as in the federal government, following the money is often the way to sort out the pieces.

It is really not like nothing is going on

http://www.nj.com/traffic/index.ssf/2016/03/new_hudson_river_rail_tunnels_take_big_step_forward.html

I do not know what federaleeze is for fast tracking the EIS, but the EIS for the ARC earlier proposal took six years.

A substantial part of the hundreds of millions of dollars needed to rebuild the Pulaski Skyway is coming from the Port Authority of New York & New Jersey.  The problem with that is that the Port Authority legislation stipulates that its funding can only support PA facilities or those roads "feeding" the PA facilities.  The Pulaski feeds the Holland Tunnel, but the Holland Tunnel is specifically exempted from PA-feeder funding because it predates the Port Authority itself.  The Christie administration used PA funds to rebuild the Pulaski Skyway by claiming that it's a "feeder" to the Lincoln Tunnel.  He's the first person in history to say, claim or believe that.  There's a federal investigation into the Pulaski Skyway funding coming from PA tolls.