Passenger Trains > Personnel now permitted in engine room of Chargers when IDLING

> It is allowable for employees to enter the engine room compartment on
> the SC-44 locomotive with proper “Amtrak Personal Protective
> Equipment” (PPE) when the diesel engine is idling for pass-through or
> maintenance purposes. Employees must be aware that the diesel engine
> can increase revolutions per minute (rpm) at any time. In this
> situation, employees should safely exit the engine compartment room
> immediately.

From Amtrak Central Region General Order 2017-17

So why are they banned from the engine room when under load?

Although I only did it a few times, I never felt comfortable going through the car-body of a unit under-load but is there something different with these units?

You couldn't go into the engine room because a number of the things that were delivered had defective crankshafts and the prime mover could possibly go boom. It took almost a year for the damn things to get into revenue service running as a single unit, at least on CalTrans corridors. German junk. I pray the hoggers I work with don't get into a collision in these POSs, there is no collision protection unless you're going about 10 mph. They are junk. Period.

I believe the engines are Cummins and doubt they are made in Germany. Don't know if they are made in USA or somewhere else.

Hasn't Brightline been running its locomotives daily for six months?

Posted from Android

Irregardless of what one poster has stated, the problem from what I remember being posted before is that there is a fear that the extremely high pressure fuel lines could burst. Nothing wrong with the crankshaft. If you think about it, it makes perfect common sense. Stay away from potentional problem area. In a normal plant (on land) that has very high pressure lines, a safety zone is kept around them to keep personal away.

Makes perfect sense.

I had the unfortunate experience of being in the engine room re-starting an F45. (5952) It started clattering, and decided to come apart when it got up to R-8. Many broken parts, oil all over, smoke filling the cab. Later found out it had a broken cam shaft, several blown heads, a cam gear, & other problems. I still remember the muffled boom when the gases in the crank case ingited from a spark, and blew both dip sticks out of the tube. No injuries, just the fond memory.

The Nippon Sharyo DMUs for Toronto and SMART had potentially defective crankshafts as I recall. Believe Cummins replaced those engines under warranty.

Wow, it is a shame that people come on here and let their personal bias flow freely. Let me share some real, and not so secret, facts with the fine people of TO:

Fact: Siemens was behind the original "no entry into the engine while the engine room" labeling on the locomotives as a safety measure (carried over from their European safety requirements) around the medium speed diesel engine.
Fact: Amtrak worked with Siemens to allow employees into the engine room while the engine is idling to perform routine maintenance and inspections
Fact: This precaution had nothing to do with the claimed crankshaft issue. It was due to the extremely high pressure fuel lines and the medium speed Cummins QSK95 diesel engine. Medium speed diesel engines are relatively new to the US rail industry, and require a bit more caution than the old EMD / GE diesel engines.
Fact: Cummins did experience some minor quality issues on early production engines, which lead to a few engines being exchanged as a precaution.
Fact: Cummins is very proactive at identifying potential diesel engine issues, and taking steps to maximize engine up time. A large number of Chargers are equipped with Cummins data loggers that phone home daily with engine performance data.
Fact: No California or Midwest train has been delayed or cancelled, to date, because of a Charger locomotive failure.
Fact: Amtrak prohibited the Chargers from leading until multiple issues with a remote monitoring system were ironed out. It had absolutely nothing to do with the Charger locomotive, it was a back office software issue.
Fact: California Chargers were shipped in March, and placed in lead service in October, this is not a year. Midwest Chargers arrived after California's, and again placed into lead service before California's Chargers, again, not a year.
Fact: Crew and maintenance feedback on the locomotives are overwhelmingly positive so far, but there are always those who can find fault with the perfect sunny day at the beach drinking free margaritas.

Is the machine perfect:? NO
Is it attractive?: Depends on your taste

For those of you "Rails" out there that are unhappy with the Charger, you need to talk to your brothers in LA running the EMD F125s.



KM-OUT



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/17 09:56 by KM-ML4000.

No trains delayed because of Charger failure? Are you sure? Just a few weeks ago, a photo of a failed Charger being pulled by a CP locomotive was seen over on the space of face.

KM -- Thanks for sharing these facts.

Years ago I was in a staff QA/QC group, and we had a large sign that read:
"Opinions without facts/data are NOT useful."

Trainboss Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You couldn't go into the engine room because a
> number of the things that were delivered had
> defective crankshafts and the prime mover could
> possibly go boom. It took almost a year for the
> damn things to get into revenue service running as
> a single unit, at least on CalTrans corridors.
> German junk. I pray the hoggers I work with don't
> get into a collision in these POSs, there is no
> collision protection unless you're going about 10
> mph. They are junk. Period

WOW. Is that how you refer to BMW's, Audi's and Porsche's as? "German Junk"? LOL. German engineering is legendary...and we can now add passenger locomotives to the list.

Thanks, everyone, for the interesting posts.

KM-ML4000 --
Thanks for the very interesting long list of facts.

I assume that these Chargers do meet all collision
standards for the cab, or they would not be allowed
to be put into service. Am I correct?

I write the following only as general comments,
and not because I know anything specific about
these new Charger locomotives.

Where, exactly, are these Charger locomotives
actually made? How good is the quality control
during the manufacturing and assembly process of
the parts and the locomotives? What quality
checks are done, if any, when the parts are made?
Ditto for the materials the parts are made out of.

Excellent engineering is very important, but that
alone will not guarantee that excellent products
are made if the quality of the parts and the
manufacturing and assembly process is not also
excellent from start to finish.

Margaret_SP_fan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I assume that these Chargers do meet all
> collision
> standards for the cab, or they would not be
> allowed
> to be put into service. Am I correct?

Yes. They are almost exactly like Amtrak’s ACS64s in that respect, one of which hit a backhoe at 100 mph. It performed very well.

> Where, exactly, are these Charger locomotives
> actually made?

Sacramento, CA, from the frame up. Components are built by suppliers all over the U.S.

Here’s an interesting link with some more info:

http://w3.usa.siemens.com/mobility/us/en/interurban-mobility/rail-solutions/high-speed-and-intercity-trains/documents/multi-state_charger%20de%20locomotive_datasheet_lr.pdf

The locomotive is based on proven designs and built with proven components by a manufacturer with proven experience. My experience operating the Chargers so far has been quite positive.

Also, didn't the batteries slide out of one on a Hiawatha, striking a bridge and causing a fire?

1976 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No trains delayed because of Charger failure? Are
> you sure? Just a few weeks ago, a photo of a
> failed Charger being pulled by a CP locomotive was
> seen over on the space of face.

Posted from Android

Fuppywith
What an interesting "handle" you chose!

THANK you VERY much for reminding me about how
good Siemens locomotives are. I know they are
assembled in Sacramento. Was just hoping their
parts were of the usual excellent quality of other
Siemens products. SO glad you have had no problems
with them so far. (One certainly can dislike their
looks, but that that has nothing to do with their
quality.) Hope they have long and uneventful careers
with few problems.

Tom_Wero Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Trainboss Wrote:


> WOW. Is that how you refer to BMW's, Audi's and
> Porsche's as? "German Junk"? LOL. German
> engineering is legendary...and we can now add
> passenger locomotives to the list.

"Legendary German Locomotive Engineering"?

Apparently you are not aware of the Krauss-Maffei locomotives bought by the Southern Pacific and the D&RGW Railroads?

In case you were not aware, the D&RG gave up on their 3 units within 6 months, because they were unable to keep them running. They sold them to the SP who had a larger fleet, and some flatland territory to run them on.

The SP wasn't able to keep theirs running either, and they all overheated going through tunnels.

The end was all the finely engineered units except the camera car went to the scrapyard within three years!
U series GEs lasted at least three times that long.
G

Tom_Wero should be reminded that “Superior” German engineering has had some spectacular failures. Two in particular are:

On June 3, 1998 an ICE train derailed near the village of Eschede in Germany killing 101 and injuring 88. The cause of the derailment was a fatigue crack in one wheel. It turned out that the fatigue crack actually resulted from improper design; multipart wheels designed to provide smooth rides on slower, lighter trams were used on ICE trains instead of single piece steel wheels designed for fast, heavy rail service. This disaster remains the worst high-speed-rail disaster worldwide.

Going back further in time, there is always the Hindenburg that burned on May 6, 1937.
That was a disaster waiting to happen, and it did.

ALLEN

The U.S. restricted sales of helium to the German Reich. They didn't believe the German assertions of "peaceful use".

That's a lesson for some other countries today.

Posted from Android

Two Midwest Chargers were brought back to Chicago after incidents.
The first was caused by the battery box tray latch not being engaged and the battery box door not being fully locked. This failure is not counted as a road failure of the locomotive because human error could not be ruled out.

The second was last week a Charger struck a down tree.

Both instances were not direct locomotive failures.

1976 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No trains delayed because of Charger failure? Are
> you sure? Just a few weeks ago, a photo of a
> failed Charger being pulled by a CP locomotive was
> seen over on the space of face.