Passenger Trains > CA HSR: what ELSE can go wrong?

High-speed rail project vastly underestimated cost of relocating utility
lines beneath Fresno

Los Angeles Times
By Ralph Vartabedian
Apr 18, 2018

> High-speed rail project vastly underestimated cost of relocating
> utility lines beneath Fresno
>
> Buried beneath Fresno were some costly surprises for the California
> bullet train authority, which disclosed Tuesday that the price of
> utility relocations along a 29-mile section of railway has surged
> from a 2013 estimate of $69 million to $396 million.
>
> Although it was known that moving gas lines, sewer pipes, water mains
> and communications wire to make way for the route would be more
> expensive than originally expected, the magnitude of the increase —
> nearly a six-fold jump — puts into better focus why the project's
> costs are rising so sharply.
>
> The California High-Speed Rail Authority board on Friday took up the
> problem, hearing from its staff that the original estimate contained
> a number of miscalculations.
>
> The number of linear feet of utilities that have to be moved was
> underestimated, as was the cost per foot for the job, according to a
> staff memo. Then, there were utilities that nobody even knew were in
> the ground. The authority changed its mind about some of the work, as
> well, the report said.
>
> The original cost estimate was based on work performed by the rail
> authority's regional consultant, the staff memo said. It did not
> identify the company, but rail authority records indicate the
> regional consultant from before 2013 through at least 2015 was Los
> Angeles-based Aecom. By 2017, the company was no longer on the job.
> The company did not have an immediate response when contacted.
>
> The history of the utility relocations suggests some turmoil in
> management decisions — which the rail authority staff said it would
> not repeat in the future.
>
> The original plan was to have AT&T and Pacific Gas and Electric Co.
> move their own equipment, rather than allow the main construction
> contractor, Tutor Perini, to do the work.
>
> After getting started, however, the two utilities came back and told
> the rail authority that they were having trouble meeting the
> schedule. So, the rail authority handed the job to Tutor Perini in
> February 2017 and increased the budget to $159 million.
>
> By September 2017, the rail authority arrived at a new cost estimate
> of $396 million, which was not made public until Tuesday. The price
> hike is part of the $2.8 billion in cost increases for the Central
> Valley work that were disclosed in January and were incorporated into
> the draft 2018 business plan released last month.
>
> The higher costs would deplete the budget for the utility relocations
> by April, according to the staff memo. So the board approved moving
> $40 million from a future contract reserved for installing track in
> the Central Valley to cover the utility work in Fresno. That $40
> million will fund the utility work until July, the memo said.


http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-bullet-train-utilities-20180418-story.html



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/18 19:40 by GenePoon.

As a civil engineer, I know where these costs should ballpark at. 369 million????!!! That is project management at its worst. This at most should have gotten to about 75 million dollars. The entire project management team should be fired for this level of incompetence. Though Tutor Perini is notorious for this kind of epic cost escalation. CAHSR should never have gotten involved with them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/18 15:40 by bretton88.

This is getting beyond absurd. We need a better term than "boondoggle", or "browndoggle" to describe this ridiculous project. This was not just a little off but off by more than 5 times the original estimate. Absolute foolishness. This project needs to die.

---

You people just do not get it.

CAHSR is a jobs project. Solely meant to line the pockets of those involved.

No more, no less.

So, if you take that into consideration, CAHSR is doing exactly what it is designed to do.

<For those that have a hard time understanding, my tongue is firmly planted in my cheek.>

The real costs for this HSR project has yet to seen! The 98 billion dollar figure be thrown about is for phase 1 only. Phase 1 includes about 500 miles of track from San Francisco to Los Angels. If you go back and dig up the 2008 voter pamphlet that was used to intice people to vote for the HSR. In order to get enough yes votes, there’s a phase 2 part to the HSR project that has to built as well. This includes an extension to San Diego, inland valley to Riverside and Merced to Sacramento. When these projected costs are added to the 98 billion dollar figure, the true costs to cover what was voted on will be around 153 billion dollars at today’s cost! With a population of over 39 million people in the state, it works out to about $3,500 per man, women and child. However, with only about 50% of the people in California paying state taxes, it will work out to about $7,000 per tax payer. The $7,000 price will only give you a opportunity to buy a ticket to ride the train.

The other issue facing the state is, the funding is not coming from private business or from the Feds as was thought. So most of the funding will need to come from California tax payers. When people talk about the state having a budget surplus right now ( a few billion dollars ) you must not forget that there are 100’s of billions of dollars in under funded liabilities. Such as State workers and School employees pensions, full medical, dental and vision coverage for retirees. The day of reckoning is drawing near as an older state work force gets close to retirement.

I recommend people go online and dig up the 2008 voter pamphlet and see what was sold to the voters.

Valleyman

jst3751 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You people just do not get it.
>
> CAHSR is a jobs project. Solely meant to line the
> pockets of those involved.
>
> No more, no less.
>
> So, if you take that into consideration, CAHSR is
> doing exactly what it is designed to do.
>
>

Except it hasn't even created very many jobs. More like lining the pockets of well-connected consultants.

There is very slow work progress in the Fresno are as seen on my most recent trip[ to Davis. This is compared to what I had seen from last September.

By the time this thing is built, there will probably be over 100 million people in California, so the cost per person won't be so bad.

But hasn't it been said that more people are leaving California every day than moving there?

Victor A. Baird
http://www.erstwhilepublications.com


irhoghead Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> By the time this thing is built, there will
> probably be over 100 million people in California,
> so the cost per person won't be so bad.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/18 14:46 by wabash2800.

jst3751 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You people just do not get it.
>
> CAHSR is a jobs project. Solely meant to line the
> pockets of those involved.
>
> No more, no less.
>
> So, if you take that into consideration, CAHSR is
> doing exactly what it is designed to do.
>

Hehe. Thanks for the smiles. YES, the CA HSR is hilarious. Tax money will be wasted regardless, and voter wishes are irrelevant (except during election season), so let the circus continue.

SanDiegan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Except it hasn't even created very many jobs. More
> like lining the pockets of well-connected
> consultants.

It might have prevented job elimination to the well-connected folks, but no, "job creation" is an election season bait to exploit those who suffered (or had fears of) job losses due to economic downturns. That card has been played for years and people continue to get suckered.

Blaming the consultant is from the standard playbook. You might need to dig deeper than that.

wabash2800 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But hasn't been said that more people are leaving
> California every day then moving there?
>
> Victor A. Baird
> http://www.erstwhilepublications.com

Media says that's the case for Northern California (Bay Area), but I can't speak for SoCal. "Population increase" and ridership projections based on that idea has been used to trick people into supporting this project. In that context, his sarcasm makes perfect sense.

jst3751 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You people just do not get it.
>
> CAHSR is a jobs project. Solely meant to line the
> pockets of those involved.
>
> No more, no less.
>
> So, if you take that into consideration, CAHSR is
> doing exactly what it is designed to do.
>
>

What, cost taxpayers more and more wasted money because they can't even get even the 1ST Segment done in a timely manner? Keep living the fantasy since like I said before, it's a Pipe Dream!

ProAmtrak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What, cost taxpayers more and more wasted money
> because they can't even get even the 1ST Segment
> done in a timely manner? Keep living the fantasy
> since like I said before, it's a Pipe Dream!

In hindsight, I wish CA HSR hired you as a consultant, since you've been consistent for years, and so far, you've been right - get paid the big bucks, then when the time is right, you kill the project. Everybody wins. :-)

True but I can see the obvious, that's why this country can't have true HSR because of crap like this, if the US in general looked at how the other contries built their HSR we would be in much better shape!

Are the citizens of Fresno unaware of the joys of living "off-the-grid"? Who really needs electricity, gas, water and sewerage? When you've got to eat, drink, be comfortable or "go," take the train. It's a win-win.

BOONDOGGLE OF THE HIGHEST MAGNITUDE FROM THE VERY BEGINNING!

Governor Moonbeam's High Speed Choo Choo to Nowhere Strikes Again!

Mike

Aside from the jobs creation for the people pouring the cement and creating this giant boondoggle, do you realuze hiw many consultants, lawyers, engineers, public relations people etc etc are bellied up to this trough fully employed drinking our tax money?
Jeez.
C

Carol Voss
Bakersfield, CA

2720 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BOONDOGGLE OF THE HIGHEST MAGNITUDE FROM THE VERY
> BEGINNING!
>
> Governor Moonbeam's High Speed Choo Choo to
> Nowhere Strikes Again!
>
> Mike


Right along the same line of the "Big Dig" some years back.

I think it's time for another study.

And not another one of those multi-million dollar studies. For
a project of this magnitude, let's see if we can find someone
who can come up with a study that costs a billion or more. As
I understand it, in America, the fix for every problem is to
throw as much time and money into a project as humanly possible.

/Mitch