Passenger Trains > Empire Builder Timekeeping

Is anyone aware of actions being taken to rectify consistently late, and more recently extremely late eastbound E.B. issues?  Aside from the derailments, it appears that we have returned to 2014-2015 BNSF dispatching.  Over 4 hours late into MSP is becoming more common with numerous arrivals over 8 hours late.      

I think its obvious that host railroads have concluded that the new Amtrak management couldn't care less about what happens to the LD trains.  In fact, they may be tacitly approving of host RR's treating these trains as a bothersome annoyance.  Amtrak's lack of action regarding the deteriorating LD operation tells you all you need to know about the clowns running Amtrak.  

wtsherman100 Wrote:
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> I think its obvious that host railroads have
> concluded that the new Amtrak management couldn't
> care less about what happens to the LD trains. 
> In fact, they may be tacitly approving of host
> RR's treating these trains as a bothersome
> annoyance.  Amtrak's lack of action regarding the
> deteriorating LD operation tells you all you need
> to know about the clowns running Amtrak.  

=========================================

You have just insulted the honorable entertainment profession of the clown.

rponthan Wrote:
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> Is anyone aware of actions being taken to rectify consistently late, and more recently extremely late eastbound E.B. issues?

I don't have any inside information about what Amtrak might be doing about this, but in my opinion the only solution at this time is to find a sixth set of equipment so the eastbounds can depart the west coast on time.  The westbounds are also consistently late (3 hrs 30 mins today) and this is what starts the trouble.  We are again approaching the point where both 7 and 8 will have to be annulled for a day to get everything back in position.

Before criticizing the BNSF dispatchers, I would point to traffic congestion and track maintenance first.  Same issues as five years ago.

12 hours late at Williston, ND this morning. Reasons include broken rail, 2 long waits for relief crew, many long waits for westbound freight to pass, and a stowaway (really!)

Posted from iPhone

the lateness is due to trackwork between Spokane and Seattle which isn't going to be done until October  on trip in July we were 4 lat es late out of Essex, 7 hrs late out of grand forks and only 4.5 hours late at win where we got off, Portland section is sitting in Spokane waiting for Seattle section

They can turn the train back at Everett. They have done it during mudslides.  Who don't they to save 2 hours ? 

I think it's safe to say that Amtrak's long distance trains--especially the Builder, Ca,Zephyr and SWC--are a totally unreliable form of transportation.

Nothing in the field of passenger transport is more unreliable than these trains.

I wouldn't be surprised if someday deaths are reported among passengers suffering these extreemy long delays--especially among elderly people.

Very unfortunate we now have no reliable train MSP to Chicago.    
The westbound is usually on time Chicago to MSP.  THanks CP!
Recent trip to Dearborn I had to fly to Chicago for the Wolverine.


 

ronald321 Wrote:
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> I think it's safe to say that Amtrak's long
> distance trains--especially the Builder, Ca,Zephyr
> and SWC--are a totally unreliable form of
> transportation.
>
> Nothing in the field of passenger transport is
> more unreliable than these trains.
>
> I wouldn't be surprised if someday deaths are
> reported among passengers suffering these extreemy
> long delays--especially among elderly people.


Except VIA's Canadian.

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> They can turn the train back at Everett. They have done it during mudslides.

Generally the equipment continues to Seattle, while the passengers are bused from Everett to avoid exposing them to the risk of a slide.  The only time the equipment would turn there is if a severe slide has already occurred and the line is completely closed.

I highly doubt the dispatching has changed.  High freight volumes coupled with trackwork (main/siding closures, slow orders, maintenance windows) and heat-related slow orders. 

In my view Amtrak and BNSF ought to collaborate to set the schedule to match current conditions.  Right now the Empire Builder needs an additional 3-4 hours each way.  Come October it will probably be able to keep the current schedule fairly reliably.

Not many folks will complain if they have a 39 hour trip instead of a 36 hour trip, if the change is planned in advance.


rponthan Wrote:
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> Is anyone aware of actions being taken to rectify
> consistently late, and more recently extremely
> late eastbound E.B. issues?  Aside from the
> derailments, it appears that we have returned to
> 2014-2015 BNSF dispatching.  Over 4 hours late
> into MSP is becoming more common with numerous
> arrivals over 8 hours late.      

illini73 Wrote:
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> joemvcnj Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > They can turn the train back at Everett. They
> have done it during mudslides.
>
> Generally the equipment continues to Seattle,
> while the passengers are bused from Everett to
> avoid exposing them to the risk of a slide.  The
> only time the equipment would turn there is if a
> severe slide has already occurred and the line is
> completely closed.

From the looks of things, todays #7 (10) may turn at Spokane.

Thank you for all the responses.  No doubt it is a combination of issues, not only oil, derailments, stowaways, general traffic, track maintenance/upgrades, Amtrak-fill in the blank, dispatching, but some combination of many, issues.  Bottom line, the general traveling public is probably flexible to a degree, but the impact on their travel experience and plans not involving transporation are greatly impacted.  For the customer, other than a service advisory about CP track work, their is no other delay advisories, or in this case, I would use the word warnings.  Communications are a critical, basic customer service requirement if Amtrak hopes to maintain some degree of customer satisfaction and qualifying statements (at least they told us in advance) as they share their 'experience' with others and reflect on their trip.  Yes, their are no predicting capabilities for some delays, but there are for others, such as the CP track work.  Of course they know that communications are important at some or many levels.  Yes, business is hectic, heavy loads, heat, storms, vacations, etc., but only there is only one, ultimate component in the mix, the customer.

Update: 8(9) made it to CHI at 2:55 am this morning, 10 hours late. Amtrak took a large group of people who had missed connections in CHI off the train at Milwaukee for the night, to continue their trip today.

Posted from iPhone

Exeter2 Wrote:
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> Update: 8(9) made it to CHI at 2:55 am this
> morning, 10 hours late. Amtrak took a large group
> of people who had missed connections in CHI off
> the train at Milwaukee for the night, to continue
> their trip today.
>
> Posted from iPhone

WOW! Now that's actually a pretty smart move by Amtrak - to take the connecting passengers off at Milwaukee - cheaper loding in Milwaukee and get the folks settled in. Then they can continue on their way in the morning to Chiacgo - a little more leisurely, despite the stress of already being a day late. 

Appears the Empire Builders may be getting back into some sort of order. I don't think it is the meltdown that occurred back in 2013 or so. That was much more devastating. Track maintenance and a rash of bad luck in between. I realize I say that as the Empire Builder coming in to Chicago today is six plus hours late. But th others are a couple hours late or ontime.....

Amtrak had NOT been turning some overly late Empire Builders at Spokane for some reason. But now they seem more apt to doing that if needed. Both #8's on the road today did leave Seattle over an hour late. So they were already down out of the gate. But back in 2013, we were seeing departures of five to six hours late of Seattle......

Let's hope things improve!

The freight railroads can hardly keep any semblance of predictable freight transit times so not surprising Amtrak islost in the mess.  Amtrak needs to do a better job of making sure their equipment is not the cause delays.

Could this be a case of BNSF warning Amtrak back in the spring that it will be a rough summer and Amtrak did nothing to prepare, like stretch the schedule, or get a 6th set of equipment ready, or run a on-time bustitute out of St Paul for Chicago ?

Posted from Android

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> Could this be a case of BNSF warning Amtrak back
> in the spring that it will be a rough summer and
> Amtrak did nothing to prepare, like stretch the
> schedule, or get a 6th set of equipment ready, or
> run a on-time bustitute out of St Paul for Chicago
> ?
>
> Posted from Android

Yep, I remember seeing aomeone post that here, hopefully most of the MOW work's done soon, but on the other hand the guys criticizing the lateness as unreliability need to look at the facts instead of drawing conclusions!

millerdc Wrote:
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> The freight railroads can hardly keep any
> semblance of predictable freight transit times so
> not surprising Amtrak islost in the mess.

Yes

Adding time to the schedule doesn't change things because the lack of ability to manage traffic remains. I have experience that demonstrates exactly that.

>  Amtrak
> needs to do a better job of making sure their
> equipment is not the cause delays.

Yes

TAW