Passenger Trains > Greyhound sued for warrantless searches

Greyhound Lines has been sued for allowing warrantless searches of its passengers by federal agents.

The Washington Post reports the lawsuit cites illegal sharing of passenger data by employees. Agents stopped interstate buses and demanded proof of citizenship.

Sounds a little like Border Patrol boarding trains in upstate NY, or DEA etc boarding trains in Reno or Albuquerque and going to specific passengers.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/lawsuit-targets-greyhound-over-warrantless-immigration-stops-aboard-buses/2018/11/08/1ed612a0-e362-11e8-ab2c-b31dcd53ca6b_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-cards_hp-card-national%3Ahomepage%2Fcard

Posted from Android

I am all for security, but I am disgusted by "security theater" in which the rights of individuals are sacrificed to make a show of force.  As we have said about the upstate NY boardings of Amtrak, passengers need to know they have a right to not answer any questions put to them by such agents if the passenger is simply riding a public converyance. And those of us who witness such intrusion, too often prompted by racial appearance or language usage, should stand up for those rights too.  
 

RevRandy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am all for security, but I am disgusted by
> "security theater" in which the rights of
> individuals are sacrificed to make a show of
> force.  As we have said about the upstate NY
> boardings of Amtrak, passengers need to know they
> have a right to not answer any questions put to
> them by such agents if the passenger is simply
> riding a public converyance. And those of us who
> witness such intrusion, too often prompted by
> racial appearance or language usage, should stand
> up for those rights too.  
>  

Well said. Thank you.

Who was it that said "those who would trade freedom for security deserve neither"?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/18 10:36 by ATSF3751.

Didn't Motel 6 just settle a suit for giving their customer's data to the Border Patrol?

PHall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Didn't Motel 6 just settle a suit for giving their
> customer's data to the Border Patrol?

$8-9M depending on the news source.

ATSF3751 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RevRandy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I am all for security, but I am disgusted by
> > "security theater" in which the rights of
> > individuals are sacrificed to make a show of
> > force.  As we have said about the upstate NY
> > boardings of Amtrak, passengers need to know
> they
> > have a right to not answer any questions put to
> > them by such agents if the passenger is simply
> > riding a public converyance. And those of us
> who
> > witness such intrusion, too often prompted by
> > racial appearance or language usage, should
> stand
> > up for those rights too.  
> >  
>
> Well said. Thank you.
>
> Who was it that said "those who would trade
> freedom for security deserve neither"?

Ben Franklin

RevRandy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am all for security, but I am disgusted by
> "security theater" in which the rights of
> individuals are sacrificed to make a show of
> force.  As we have said about the upstate NY
> boardings of Amtrak, passengers need to know they
> have a right to not answer any questions put to
> them by such agents if the passenger is simply
> riding a public converyance. And those of us who
> witness such intrusion, too often prompted by
> racial appearance or language usage, should stand
> up for those rights too.  
>  

i would have NO problem to at LEAST answer any law enforcement officer's question on a train or any other place........

66

If I take a bus to Syracuse, Buffalo or Pittsburgh, how do I prove my citizenship without a Passport that I am not required to carry for domestic travel ? 

This is not 1930's Germany. I do not have to answer such questions.

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/18 13:29 by joemvcnj.

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If I take a bus to Syracuse, Buffalo or
> Pittsburgh, how do I prove my citizenship without
> a Passport that I am not required to carry for
> domestic travel ? 
>
> This is not 1930's Germany. I do not have to
> answer such questions.
>
>  

Although we've been told there's no racial profiling, people who don't "look Hispanic" are usually OK.

If you choose not to answer questions, the federal agents will remove you from the bus / train and continue the questioning.

F#%k them.These guys remind me of Col. Fagg on the old M*A*S*H TV show, always looking at the wrong people. My 86 year old mother was strip and I mean STRIP searched by the TSA flying to London out of SFO last year. Meanwhile...

kingwestinghouse Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> F#%k them.These guys remind me of Col. Fagg on the
> old M*A*S*H TV show, always looking at the wrong
> people. My 86 year old mother was strip and I mean
> STRIP searched by the TSA flying to London out of
> SFO last year. Meanwhile...

yea, meanwhile back on a train, i would WELCOME any law enforcement officer and assist them in any way i could..........

66

I have taken the bus from McAllen, Texas to San Antonio to connect to the Texas Eagle. The Border Patrol agents come on at the Patrol station about 60 miles up the highway and check everybody and the luggage compartment in around 10 minutes. At least once they checked at McAllen and again at the Patrol station up the highway even though the bus didn't stop between.

Posted from Android

kingwestinghouse Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> F#%k them.These guys remind me of Col. Fagg on the
> old M*A*S*H TV show, always looking at the wrong
> people. My 86 year old mother was strip and I mean
> STRIP searched by the TSA flying to London out of
> SFO last year. Meanwhile...


Oh yes and you sued for how much?  Funny my 70yr old wife hasnt had to and she goes by the metal detector every flight due to her metal hip. But hey with that kind of attitude I can see why.

Those looking for problems with peace officers are rarely disappointed.
 

jst3751 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Those looking for problems with peace officers are
> rarely disappointed.

Amen. 
>  

As a former cop I agree. There would be a lot fewer folks getting shot if they just used a little common sense...

Bill Deaver
Tehachapi, CA

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If I take a bus to Syracuse, Buffalo or
> Pittsburgh, how do I prove my citizenship without
> a Passport that I am not required to carry for
> domestic travel ? 
>
> This is not 1930's Germany. I do not have to
> answer such questions.
>
>  

seriously, in this day and age of "soft targets" would it really inconvenience you that much to at least talk to a law enforcement officer and tell him your concerns?

66

Before this goes really south...

This is nothing new.

The post article also doesn’t touch on this nor the federal law and guidelines that have been there too.

CBP has finally had the staffing as well as the political will do so what that have not been funded or unable to administratively do for sometime.

This is the result of them able to not be restricted politically for some time.

For some light reading, try this:

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2018-title8-vol1/xml/CFR-2018-title8-vol1-part287.xml

To stir the pot a little more, most losging and transport companies have in the little fine print that they will share with law enforcement any information they have upon request.

Some will state they will share only if presented with a warrant. Your mileage varies.

I will tell you that night clerks love cops coming in to check on them, and they will share information with law enforcement officially or unofficially if it helps to keep them feeling safe, right or wrong.

However to effect an arrest, law enforcement still must develop the information in all official capacities for a proper arrest and subsequent conviction to hold.

Amtrak’s privacy policy for the web states in part:

Section 4 — With Whom We Share Your Personal Information
General
Amtrak may share your personal information if required by law, court order, subpoena, or other legal process when requested by the United States Department of Homeland Security (DHS) pursuant to 49 U.S.C. 114 (2012), the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004, 50 U.S.C. 401 (2004), and implementing regulations pursuant to 49 C.F.R. § 1580 (2008), or other governmental or law enforcement authority conducting an investigation or in order to protect the rights or property of Amtrak, its customers, its sites or site users.

Motel 6:
Compliance with Law & Safety and Security

One of our top priorities is the safety and security of our guests and employees. We may use or release personal information to law enforcement or other government authorities when we believe in good faith that doing so is necessary to protect the safety and security of our guests, employees or others. If we do provide personal information in these circumstances, we will do so in a manner that is consistent with company policy and procedure. We may also use or disclose personal information where necessary to comply with legal or regulatory requirements. For example, we may disclose personal information in response to judicially enforceable subpoenas or warrants. In addition, we might use or disclose personal information in response to claims or in connection with legal proceedings or investigations of potential crimes.

Like other lodging companies, we also reserve the right to enter your room for any purpose, including to check on the safety, security and well-being of our guests, employees and others or in response to suspicious activities. We may also enter your room to check on the condition of the room or for maintenance, repairs and other similar purposes.

The hotel companies SAY they have the right to enter your room at any time.

Yet a nut job assembles an arsenal at Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas and kills 58 people. Hotel didn't notice dozens of loaded magazines and AR15 weapons.

Very selective enforcement of rules, I'd say.

Posted from Android

For those that live in non-oppressive states and familiar with firearms...

That statement is just, well a statement.

Anyone with firearms experience can explain that your statement means nothing.

Most firearms can break down to small components. How small will depend on the barrel lenght in speaking of long guns.

I’ve seen suit cases being used to travel that are larger than a smart car.

Posted from iPhone