Passenger Trains > San Francisco - San Diego Surfliner

I remember, years ago there was a proposal to have one daily San Francisco - San Diego Surfliner.  Any update on that?  Probably a dead issue now.

OIt is still on the proposal to do.     Three issues among others,    Union Pacifc must  say OK,  having sufficient equipment and the funds to upgard sidings,signals necessary to handle the trains..

Originally, the Coast Starlight ran through to San Diego.  Maybe only lasted until the next timetable was published.

Slumbercoach Wrote:
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> Originally, the Coast Starlight ran through to San
> Diego.  Maybe only lasted until the next
> timetable was published.

A train by the name of Coast Starlight has never run through to San Diego.

Amtrak trains 11/12 as started by Amtrak on May 1 1971 ran 3 days a week between Seattle and San Diego. Amtrak trains 98/99 was a daily train beginning May 1 1971 that ran between Oakland and Los Angeles.

On Nov 14, 1971 the Oakland - Los Angeles train was extended to San Diego, renumbered to 12/13 and named the Coast Daylight. The Seattle - San Diego train became Seattle - Oakland, renumbered to 13/14 and named the Coast Starlight. The Coast Starlight became the Coast Daylight at Oakland and visa-versa.

The Coast Starlight/Daylight was cut back to Los Angles in April 1972.

May 19 1974 the name Coast Daylight was dropped and the entire train became the Coast Starlight

There was a through coach car for a period of time that was switched at LAUPT to/from the Coast Starlight to/from a San Diegan between Nov 10 1995 and Oct 25, 1996

The Los Angeles - San Diego segment of the Seattle  - San Diego service was always a connecting train with through sleeping car and chair cars offered only from May 1971 to January 1972. The through cars were carried only on the trains connecting with trains running LA - Seattle. Originally the connecting trains ran only to connect with the Seattle trains, but in November 1971 the LA - San Diego connecting trains became daily and had across the platform with the Oakland - LA trains. The number of thru cars was 3 or less and motive power, baggage car, lounge and any other chair cars ran only LA -San Diego.

I don't remember a through San Diego - Oakland chair car on the Coast Starlight in 1995. The April 1996 system timetable has no mention of that service. Since the San Diegans were all Amfleet and the Coast Ctarlight was Superliner equipped, it seems that it would have been a problem. The only thing that I did see in the timetable was a note that San Diegan service was expanded north of LA to Santa Barbara.

cliff

mundo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Union Pacifc must  say
> OK,  having sufficient equipment and the funds to
> upgard sidings,signals necessary to handle the
> trains..

Apparently the funding to upgrade the line for passenger service south from San Jose to Salinas is in place thanks to the controversial gas tax/SB-1.... so only ~120 miles of track from SLO-Salinas would need to be upgraded if that project goes forward.

MyfordBrowning Wrote:
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> The Los Angeles - San Diego segment of the
> Seattle  - San Diego service was always a
> connecting train with through sleeping car and
> chair cars offered only from May 1971 to January
> 1972. The through cars were carried only on the
> trains connecting with trains running LA -
> Seattle. Originally the connecting trains ran
> only to connect with the Seattle trains, but in
> November 1971 the LA - San Diego
> connecting trains became daily and had across the
> platform with the Oakland - LA trains. The number
> of thru cars was 3 or less and motive power,
> baggage car, lounge and any other chair cars ran
> only LA -San Diego.
>
> I don't remember a through San Diego - Oakland
> chair car on the Coast Starlight in 1995. The
> April 1996 system timetable has no mention of that
> service. Since the San Diegans were all Amfleet
> and the Coast Ctarlight was Superliner equipped,
> it seems that it would have been a problem. The
> only thing that I did see in the timetable was a
> note that San Diegan service was expanded north of
> LA to Santa Barbara.
>
> cliff

This is correct.

nickgeorge25 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mundo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Union Pacifc must  say
> > OK,  having sufficient equipment and the funds
> to
> > upgard sidings,signals necessary to handle the
> > trains..
>
> Apparently the funding to upgrade the line for
> passenger service south from San Jose to Salinas
> is in place thanks to the controversial gas
> tax/SB-1.... so only ~120 miles of track from
> SLO-Salinas would need to be upgraded if that
> project goes forward.


Bay Area powers (the ones that count) have no desire to see this happen. It could interfere with other plans, High-Speed Whatever Rail among them, and offers no benefits. Only costs and and unknown risks. It won't happen. Desires of existing or potential passengers play no part.

MyfordBrowning Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't remember a through San Diego - Oakland
> chair car on the Coast Starlight in 1995. The
> April 1996 system timetable has no mention of that
> service. Since the San Diegans were all Amfleet
> and the Coast Ctarlight was Superliner equipped,
> it seems that it would have been a problem. The
> only thing that I did see in the timetable was a
> note that San Diegan service was expanded north of
> LA to Santa Barbara.
>
> cliff

Oh, it was differently there. I twice witnessed the switching of the through coach from a San Diegan onto the Coast Starlight. This was the San Diegan using the California Cars at that time. And actually, I have to correct myself. It was not just a coach. There was a coach/baggage car and a sleeper car.

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,808405,808474#msg-808474
https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,773457,774013#msg-774013

http://www.trainweb.org/chris/Trip_Hale_Bopp.html was my trip!  Through cars on the San Diegan Santa Ana to Portland and back from Seattle.

Chris

Interest in the concept has waned in recent years. There’s no one actively pushing the concept. Whatever interest there has been has always been shallow.

Chances of implementation probably slightly above the chances of restoring New Orleans-Jacksonville, but still essentially zero.

Posted from iPhone

Just to be clear - the 1995-1996 through car operation - involved a sleeper and a Hi-Level Coach Car being the two cars switched over to the LA - San Diego train, which that train consisted of Cal Trans Cars - or cars now operating on the San Jose to Sacrmento and San Joaquin route? For some reason I just don't remember this at all - the Cal Trans cars operating on the Surfliner route. I don't deny it, and certainly believe it, I just don't remember this for some reason, or didn't pay too close attention to the details. For some reason I thought it went directly from single level to the Pacific Surfliner cars that came fully online in 2001/2002. I loved the Pacific Surfliner cars when they first came out. The seats reminded me of the Acela Express - I think they were an exact copy for most part. Had regular business in the LA and San Diego area between mid 2001 and Nov 2002. 

jp1822 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just to be clear - the 1995-1996 through car
> operation - involved a sleeper and a Hi-Level
> Coach Car being the two cars switched over to the
> LA - San Diego train, which that train consisted
> of Cal Trans Cars - or cars now operating on the
> San Jose to Sacrmento and San Joaquin route? For
> some reason I just don't remember this at all -
> the Cal Trans cars operating on the Surfliner
> route. I don't deny it, and certainly believe it,
> I just don't remember this for some reason, or
> didn't pay too close attention to the details. For
> some reason I thought it went directly from single
> level to the Pacific Surfliner cars that came
> fully online in 2001/2002. I loved the Pacific
> Surfliner cars when they first came out. The seats
> reminded me of the Acela Express - I think they
> were an exact copy for most part. Had regular
> business in the LA and San Diego area between mid
> 2001 and Nov 2002. 

When the California Cars were delivered they went into San Diegan service. However they suffered door problems. As the second generation cars were delivered, which became known as the rebranded Surfliner, the original California cars were moved to northern California for the Capitals and San Juaquins.

Some of th postings are not clear.  Also the mid 90's were a very short operation and I find no details in my operating notes one way or the other.

Some of the California Type cars were known as Cal Trans, since the state financed many of the cars.

so along with the name  Surfliner cars,  the car body type are all the same.  Ownership, floor plans and some other details do differ.
 

My wife and I rode the California cars on what could have been one of the first revenue northbound trips out of San Diego for these cars on October 30th, 1995.  We remember hearing all sorts of complients from crews on the brand new equipment while listening to the scanner.  We were on our way from San Diego to LA to begin our honeymoon on the Starlight, so there is no way I'm going to get the date of our wedding wrong. (But come to think of it, I hope I'm thinking of the right trip!)

ATSF 2333

Thanks. Not sure why, but I seem to only remember the hype when the present Surfliner equipment was launched in 2001 and the name was re-launched etc. I don't remember being on a bi-level train to/from LA before 2000, always single level of some sort. And I always remember the current bi-level Cal Trans cars operating in the central CA corridor and San Joaquin. But service did exponential increase in the late 1990s and into the early 2000's. Not denying, just brain freeze on my part. 

Has there been any final talks as to what the distribution of cars will be when the new single level CA Corridor train cars arrive (e.g. bilevels all to Surfliner and single level taking over in central corridor and San Joaquins?). I haven't heard a finalization of how the distribution will go, or if some of the CA bi-levels may even get retired..........

JP. I heard, the siemens Single levels will be on the San Joaquins. And all the Bilevels will be split between
the Capitol Corridor and Surfliner routes. I do know, the LOSSAN folks do not want any single level cars.
But who knows. maybe we will see a few in LA.

jp1822 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks. Not sure why, but I seem to only remember
> the hype when the present Surfliner equipment was
> launched in 2001 and the name was re-launched etc.
> I don't remember being on a bi-level train to/from
> LA before 2000, always single level of some sort.
> And I always remember the current bi-level Cal
> Trans cars operating in the central CA corridor
> and San Joaquin. But service did exponential
> increase in the late 1990s and into the early
> 2000's. Not denying, just brain freeze on my
> part. 
>
> Has there been any final talks as to what the
> distribution of cars will be when the new single
> level CA Corridor train cars arrive (e.g. bilevels
> all to Surfliner and single level taking over in
> central corridor and San Joaquins?). I haven't
> heard a finalization of how the distribution will
> go, or if some of the CA bi-levels may even get
> retired..........

Jerry Martin
Los Angeles, CA
Central Coast Railroad Festival



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/19 20:51 by GP25.

Thanks! That's the same as what I've heard as well (with potentially some single levels being on the CA Capitol Corridor Route if extras). 

GP25 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JP. I heard, the siemens Single levels will be on
> the San Joaquins. And all the Bilevels will be
> split between
> the Capitol Corridor and Surfliner routes. I do
> know, the LOSSAN folks do not want any single
> level cars.
> But who knows. maybe we will see a few in LA.
>
> jp1822 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thanks. Not sure why, but I seem to only
> remember
> > the hype when the present Surfliner equipment
> was
> > launched in 2001 and the name was re-launched
> etc.
> > I don't remember being on a bi-level train
> to/from
> > LA before 2000, always single level of some
> sort.
> > And I always remember the current bi-level Cal
> > Trans cars operating in the central CA corridor
> > and San Joaquin. But service did exponential
> > increase in the late 1990s and into the early
> > 2000's. Not denying, just brain freeze on my
> > part. 
> >
> > Has there been any final talks as to what the
> > distribution of cars will be when the new
> single
> > level CA Corridor train cars arrive (e.g.
> bilevels
> > all to Surfliner and single level taking over
> in
> > central corridor and San Joaquins?). I haven't
> > heard a finalization of how the distribution
> will
> > go, or if some of the CA bi-levels may even get
> > retired..........

mundo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some of th postings are not clear.  Also the mid
> 90's were a very short operation and I find no
> details in my operating notes one way or the
> other.
>
> Some of the California Type cars were known as Cal
> Trans, since the state financed many of the cars.
>
> so along with the name  Surfliner cars,  the car
> body type are all the same.  Ownership, floor
> plans and some other details do differ.
>  

The operation of the through cars between the Coast Starlight and the San Diegan in late 1995 and early 1996 lasted barely 6 months. The 2 times I witnessed the switching of the cars from the San Diegan to the Coast Starlight, both times caused delays to the departure of the Coast Starlight. One of those 2 times, mechanical spent about 30 minutes on the electrical connections before a decision was made to leave the car off. That required additional switching and time and getting what few passengers were on the through car that had to be left behind transferred. All in all, it appeared to be a problematic ordeal and lightly used by passengers.

Those first bi-level cars were called the California Cars and had a CalTrans logo on side. ALL were/are owned by the State of California.

The Surfliner cars are actually a second generation California Car.