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Passenger Trains > Groundbreaking - Redlands-to-San Bernardino (CA) Arrow


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Date: 07/19/19 17:59
Groundbreaking - Redlands-to-San Bernardino (CA) Arrow
Author: casco17

This morning (7/19/19) there was a groundbreaking event in downtown Redlands for the future Arrow passenger service.  It will run on a 9-mile portion of a former Santa Fe branch, and will use Stadler DMUs. The service will connect Redlands with Metrolink in Downtown San Bernardino.  There are also future plans for rush-hour-only Metrolink trains to run from Redlands to L.A. and return.

These pics were from this morning:
1. The speeches were underway when I arrived.  The other tents were for Operation Lifesaver, OmniTrans (the local transit bus service), the Arrow service, and San Bernardino CTA (formerly SanBag). 
2. The former AT&SF Redlands station is getting seismic retro-fits and other updates.  The track is out of service in this area.  The endpoint of the future service will be at the University of Redlands, another couple miles to the east.
3. This map shows how the line will connect with the Metrolink system. 

continued



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/19 18:17 by casco17.








Date: 07/19/19 18:08
Re: Groundbreaking - Redlands-to-San Bernardino (CA) Arrow
Author: casco17

4. The speeches covered the expected economic benefit from the train, including providing alternatives to driving.  They also mentioned raising awareness about the future rail activity; the line has been dormant for several years, and the few freights trains that last operated were low speed locals.  The woman speaking is (IIRC) the former mayor of Redlands, while the woman at the far left in the yellow dress is Ms. Wiggins, Metrolink CEO.  Others in attendance were from San Bernardino County TA, the FTA, and other organizations (they were out of programs).
5. Ceremonial ground breaking
6. The Santa Fe station as seen from Orange Ave.  There are also some banners with historic info and photos about the station.

Thanks for viewing



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/19 18:17 by casco17.








Date: 07/19/19 18:15
Re: Groundbreaking - Redlands-to-San Bernardino (CA) Arrow
Author: Duna

San Bernardino County Transportation Authority, SBCTA
https://gosbcta.com/



Date: 07/19/19 18:18
Re: Groundbreaking - Redlands-to-San Bernardino (CA) Arrow
Author: casco17

Duna Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> San Bernardino County Transportation Authority,
> SBCTA
> https://gosbcta.com/

Thx for the correction (says it right there on the map too)



Date: 07/19/19 18:52
Re: Groundbreaking - Redlands-to-San Bernardino (CA) Arrow
Author: JohnM

Hopefully once this is running folks will ride it.  I was impressed that Jack Dangermond is stepping up to pay for the ESRI stop along the line.  I thought there were some folks on this board that were positive this train would never run..... i’m saying my prayers that it will not end up like the boondoggle to Perris.  



Date: 07/19/19 20:11
Re: Groundbreaking - Redlands-to-San Bernardino (CA) Arrow
Author: mundo

Back in the early days of idea's for the service  San Bernardino - Redlands,  the opportunity at the time would have allowed them to route the train via the former Norton Air Force Base, that has been developed into a industry-office complex,  This would have allowed a large ridership base, plus in the future, as the San Bernardino International Airport receives flights, would have provided still more ridership. At the time, promoters was saying that 4000 folks would be employed at the development.

The former PE steel truss bridge was still across the Santa Ana River, and 85 % of the R/W required to lay trackage on the former PE line by the facility was available .  As I remember, one office building and one service station would have to be removed.  A new alignment would have been required to rejoin the branch on the western end, but at the time the land was all open.   Now the bridge was torn down and replaced with a HIGHWAY bridge.  Highway intererst finds the money.

Plus the line should extend further toward Mentone, where former Orange Groves are now housing.

I tried to explain this, when I was with a team of the old San Bag that inspected the line.

But No, they knew best.   I hope it works out for them and the tax payers that are footing the bill.  I have my doubts and at the age of 86, will not see the final outcome.

Ed



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/19 20:12 by mundo.



Date: 07/19/19 21:21
Re: Groundbreaking - Redlands-to-San Bernardino (CA) Arrow
Author: RRTom

In 1997 at an engineering firm where I worked in LA, a coworker had this proposed route on Thomas Guide map pages taped to his wall. Long time ago.

Posted from iPhone



Date: 07/19/19 21:21
Re: Groundbreaking - Redlands-to-San Bernardino (CA) Arrow
Author: RRTom

In 1997 at an engineering firm where I worked in LA, a coworker had this proposed route on Thomas Guide map pages taped to his wall. Long time ago.

Posted from iPhone



Date: 07/19/19 22:12
Re: Groundbreaking - Redlands-to-San Bernardino (CA) Arrow
Author: mundo

In 1990, I took a Thomas Bro map and did a rough draw of my proposa prior to my pointing out to SANBAG..

 Later I was given a refined map showing the route.  Bet this is what you saw.

Jan 15, 1994,  Assemblyman Joe Baca asked for State Funds to study the idea to go via San Bernardino International Airport.

Oh yes, I was off on the 4,000 employees posted from my memory, The master plan for the airport says 9,000. 

Past  history now.

I find many times Consultants report only shows what the "Customer" wants to hear.  This remains so more then ever today I believe.  So Sad.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/19 22:15 by mundo.



Date: 07/19/19 23:07
Re: Groundbreaking - Redlands-to-San Bernardino (CA) Arrow
Author: JohnM

Oh my god. Joe Baca, I forgot about that guy.  Thank god he is long gone.  



Date: 07/20/19 08:16
Re: Groundbreaking - Redlands-to-San Bernardino (CA) Arrow
Author: Winnemucca

Good to see the old AT&SF depot getting a makeover. I went to high school in Redlands in the late 60’s and used to catch the MTA bus at the depot to go into LA to see my girlfriend. I used to like to hang out in the depot even tho there were no trains. Just soaking up the by-gone vibes.

John Webb
Trinidad, CA



Date: 07/20/19 11:57
Re: Groundbreaking - Redlands-to-San Bernardino (CA) Arrow
Author: TomPlatten

I remember years ago when the Fire Chief of Redlands---I think--was planning on using an Alco S-4 that, at that time , was housed in a scrap yard in Colton (Pacific Rail Dismantling) to haul a dinner train over the Redlands line. At the time I was the Diesel Foreman at OERM and got a call to go to the scrap yard to see why the locomotive was taking so much cooling water. I was told that the engine had been up in Oregon or Washington for some time. Before I got to Colton I suspected the locomotive had a cracked  engine block due to frozen cooling water. I pulled off the lower block covers on the Alco 539 and had the scrap yard crew try to fill it with water. Immediately water began cascading down through the liners and into the oil sump. So much for the dinner train. The scrap yard acquired a 539 from Chrome Crankshaft in SF's old "B" yard supervised by D K. Henry and eventually restored the locomotive to running condition sufficient for the scrapyard! Eventually they scrapped the engine on site and the dinner train never came to fruition! Forgive my rambling!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/19 19:54 by TomPlatten.



Date: 07/20/19 14:01
Re: Groundbreaking - Redlands-to-San Bernardino (CA) Arrow
Author: railstiesballast

1.  My apologies on the delayed Redlands line, a firm I worked with got a contract in about 2009 to do preliminary engineering and they assigned an inexperienced project manager.
My periodic questions as to how it was going were rebuffed.  Then I got a call from a friend at SANBAG that the project was so badly done and designed to be so expensive that they were terminating the contract.  This set the project back 2-3 years at least. It had been done with no sense of economy and little common sense. Maybe I should have bulled my way into the project....?  I feel that I let down Mundo and other friends with this.It taught me a lesson on how consultants who don't know what to do err of the side of over-design using the most expensive solutions to problems.
2.  The Alco was not scrapped.  IIRC it was purchased from the Tacoma Belt by a group that put a bid in on the three branch lines that the Santa Fe wanted to sell (Redlands, San Jacinto, and Cushionberry).  The Santa Fe withdrew the offer when Propositions 108 and 116 passed enabling the Southern California Regional Rail Authority (Metrolink) to buy lines and develop passenger rail service.
When the owners received it they discovered the cracked block.  In addition to a replacement engine it got roller bearing trucks from some unit that was to be scrapped by Chrom Crankshaft.
It was leased to the car dismantling/scrap dealer at Colton for a very few years. The last time I saw it was in a park near Colton but that was over a decade ago, the white and orange Tacoma Belt paint was holding up fairly well.
 



Date: 07/20/19 14:28
Re: Groundbreaking - Redlands-to-San Bernardino (CA) Arrow
Author: mundo

You are forgiven Mike, you were starting out on retirement.

Ed



Date: 07/20/19 15:23
Re: Groundbreaking - Redlands-to-San Bernardino (CA) Arrow
Author: mundo

You are forgivven Mike,  You were starting to enjoy retirement.



Date: 07/20/19 22:03
Re: Groundbreaking - Redlands-to-San Bernardino (CA) Arrow
Author: Passfanatic

A great day for passenger rail transportation in the Inland Empire. I am praying that Arrow and the Metrolink trains that serve Redlands do very well with riders. I have family friends who live in Redlands and my family and I consider them family. Whenever I visit them, I have taken Metrolink to San Bernardino Santa Fe Depot. When it opens up, there will be no need to get off in San Bernardino. I can just get off at Downtown Redlands Station, located a mile and a half from where our family friends live.

Being that the Inland Empire is considered its own metropolitan area and is big, Omnitrans might want to look into having additional Arrow routes-maybe a route from Downtown San Bernardino to Riverside and even serving Downtown Perris. This route would probably be better off running on its own right of way for the most part down to Riverside, rather than running on the BNSF so that way it doesn't interfere with too many freight operations. When I rode the Metrolink Perris Valley Line for the very first time in 2017, I rode a midday train and ridership on that train was dismal. From what I have heard, the ridership on the PVL is dismal outside of rush hour. I'm sure that the number of people who ride those midday trains on the PVL can fit fine into an DMU that Omnitrans plans to use. I doubt that this will ever happen but lets say if Omnitrans ever decides to expand its own rail network to the far southern reaches of the IE, maybe they can run their Arrow DMU trains during the off peak hours and reverse reak while Metrolink runs inbound in the morning and outbound at night. That scenario will happen on the Arrow Line from San Bernardino to Redlands and only one pair of Metrolink trains will run each way, one westward during the am rush and one eastward during the pm rush.



Date: 07/20/19 23:02
Re: Groundbreaking - Redlands-to-San Bernardino (CA) Arrow
Author: mundo

Omnitrans is not the operator of the Arrow service to Redlands.

They only operate bus transit in Western San Bernardino County.

To operate between San Bernardino and Riverside Counties would require a co-operation or joint power board between the two county transportation commissions.
Yes additional trackage would be required to operate any type of passenger service between San Bernardino - Highgrove to reach Perris

Also the Perris line would need some sidings or double track to offer frequent service  That will take a massive amount of money that is no where available, unless its taken from the  highway funds and/or raise transit tax much higher then they are now and the tax payers will not go for it.

As to your trip to Redlands, only a limited number of rush hour trains would operate Los Angeles and Redlands.  Most schedules would require a change at the San Bernardino Transit Center
to the ARROW system.   The Santa Fe Station stop will not be the transfer point.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/19 03:31 by mundo.



Date: 07/21/19 08:49
Re: Groundbreaking - Redlands-to-San Bernardino (CA) Arrow
Author: BNSF6400

There is an orange and white Tacoma Beltline locomotive that has been "on display" on city owned land in Loma Linda.  Is this the same locomotive?

railstiesballast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When the owners received it they discovered the
> cracked block.  In addition to a replacement
> engine it got roller bearing trucks from some unit
> that was to be scrapped by Chrom Crankshaft.
> It was leased to the car dismantling/scrap dealer
> at Colton for a very few years. The last time I
> saw it was in a park near Colton but that was over
> a decade ago, the white and orange Tacoma Belt
> paint was holding up fairly well.
 




Date: 07/21/19 08:53
Re: Groundbreaking - Redlands-to-San Bernardino (CA) Arrow
Author: BNSF6400

Actually Omnitrans is the operator of ARROW.  Metrolink is suppose to be the track maintenance and dispatch contractor and it is unknown if Omnitrans will operator the trains directly or thru a contractor.  OmniTrans created a rail division a few years back specifically to operate ARROW.

http://www.omnitrans.org/blog/2017/06/27/omnitrans-selects-baysden-as-director-of-rail/


mundo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Omnitrans is not the operator of the Arrow service
> to Redlands.
>
> They only operate bus transit in Western San
> Bernardino County.

 



Date: 07/21/19 10:52
Re: Groundbreaking - Redlands-to-San Bernardino (CA) Arrow
Author: Passfanatic

The Omnitrans logo can be seen on the Arrow vehicles in the diagrams.

As for expanding the Arrow routes into Riverside County; yes, that would need some sort of joint approval with both San Bernardino and Riverside Counties. The potential is there though but very expensive. On the Perris Valley Line, that would mean adding multiple segments of double track or even sidings. There would need to be numerous studies about whether running this Arrow down to S. Perris during all times of the day, along with only running Metrolink during rush hours. From looking at the bus system that serves the City of Riverside as well as towns in the county, it looks like there are numerous bus routes that run from Riverside to Perris. I have never ridden the buses out there but if the bus routes between Perris and Riverside that travel in a straight shot are faster than what the train might be, then it probably doesn't make sense for Arrow to go all the way to S. Perris. There are many slow areas for Perris Valley Line Metrolink trains after departing Downtown Riverside Station. You are basically heading north up to Highgrove and then you head south and even the first few miles Metrolink trains head south once they are on the Perris Valley Line, it's slow so already that is a lot of time lost in a few miles. Maybe it would be better for Arrow not to go south of Riverside.
By the way, Riverside RTA runs the 200 bus which actually runs between San Bernardino and Disneyland so it serves three counties. Maybe someday, Riverside and San Bernardino Counties can work out a deal to have Arrow serve Riverside as well.

 



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